How your eyes can cast your fate in a gunfight

This is a discussion on How your eyes can cast your fate in a gunfight within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Something I learned a while ago, and practice as much as possible. Point shoot your first round and go from there. The "perfect stance" is ...

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Thread: How your eyes can cast your fate in a gunfight

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array EvilMonk's Avatar
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    Something I learned a while ago, and practice as much as possible. Point shoot your first round and go from there.

    The "perfect stance" is great and all, but you may never have the opportunity to use it in a Life Threatening Situation. You have to learn to be comfortable (read: proficient) with a variety of different stances and shooting positions. Hip shots, bad body angles, moving targets and so on.

    If someone jumps out of the shadows, you may be on guard, but you might be off balance. My buddies and I used to train (out of sight of the officers, as they thought we were just "playing") by jumping each other from corners and windows (in Iraq, this could happen; here, corners can still happen) and drawing while in a controlled fall. We called it a "Ground Finish".

    Sorry, I got off track I guess...

    Interesting that they studied the phenomena so closely as to even examine eye movement during the incident. Good stuff.
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  3. #17
    Distinguished Member Array PastorPack's Avatar
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    wow, great article. I'd love to see those videos.
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  4. #18
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    Nice read!! Thanks for posting.
    Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.

  5. #19
    Member Array jbone's Avatar
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    Excellent post! Thank you!
    Note: This post may contain misspellings, grammatical errors, disorganized sentence structure, or may entirely lack a coherent theme. These elements are natural to the process of writing, and will only add to the overall beauty of the post.

  6. #20
    Distinguished Member Array nutz4utwo's Avatar
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    many more articles and reaction time data:

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  7. #21
    Member Array bump's Avatar
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    THANKS for posting this!
    Long time lurker.....

  8. #22
    Distinguished Member Array kazzaerexys's Avatar
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    Thanks, Janq. Very interesting read...

    Let me say first that I have never explicitly practiced point shooting. In shooting IDPA, though, I know that there is a different way to engage closer targets than farther ones and I know that there are targets I can hit just fine without a classical sight picture.

    This past weekend I shot the IDPA Blackwater Shootout, a 12-stage match set up entirely in the shoot-houses at the Blackwater facility. There were a couple of longer range targets, but 90+% of the targets were at interior room distances---5yds or closer. The setups required opening doors and rapidly engaging several targets from cover before moving to the next engagement point.

    I shot the match very well, and what surprised me afterward was how I remembered seeing things after I was done shooting. I can remember extended strings of fire where I saw the targets clearly, saw the front of my slide overlaid on the down-zero (center of mass) area of the targets, and saw .45-caliber holes appearing in the cardboard where I was looking.

    There were a few cases where threat targets and non-threat targets were in unusual geometries (non-threat above the threat, low on the wall) where I know my first reaction was to aim at the wrong target, but I was already seeing the non-threat indication and switching my aim to the correct target.

    Anyway, I am not ready to apply for ERT or anything, but a lot of what's in that article resonates with what I recall from the match, where I was probably more "in the zone" for a longer stretch of time than I think I have been at any match I have shot so far. (The format of the match also had more adrenaline running through my system than any match I remember---my heart was racing at the end of every stage! )

    So, thanks again for the post. You managed to get me at a really good time to read that.
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  9. #23
    DM2
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    Very interesting read. Thanks for posting. I, too, would love to see the videos. It's amazing how 500 milliseconds can be considered a long time. Very interesting read indeed.
    DM2
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    Member Array SnubMan's Avatar
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    Good read -- thanks

  11. #25
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    Excellent post! I've been subscribing to Force Science Research Centers email newsletter for a couple years now. Always excellent and noteworthy information comes from them.

    I agree that Ayoob was way ahead of his time when he wrote the StressFire series.
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  12. #26
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    I remember seeing the tech they used on future weapons or similar show. Pretty slick! At least they are trying to update the training to include tips from experienced LEO

    good read thanks Janq
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

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    In this training scenario I wonder what the hit rate would be if they had used laser equipped guns?

  14. #28
    Senior Member Array threefeathers's Avatar
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    On the laser equiped handguns, good question as I've found that they cut my response time in a darkene situation by a bit, but I haven't measured it.

  15. #29
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    This confirms what I learned a long time ago when taught by an old-timer. He told me to, [B]"Watch the hands ...B]

    Biker


    Quote Originally Posted by JAT40 View Post
    Sounds like a real good reason to learn & train point shooting!


    Quote Originally Posted by psehorne View Post
    Ayoob was ahead of his time. 25 years ago, StressFire (1984), Chapter 7 Point Index, Page 55


    +1 on thanks, Janq, for posting.
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  16. #30
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    interesting article and info. Thanks for sharing. I'd be interested in viewing the videos of this to see how groups reacted, along with actually seeing how individuals moved their eyes. Good stuff.
    funwitHK
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