This is a discussion on Be Honest within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Ram Rod I see an open opportunity here, but I'm going to refrain and be the better person I should be. I'm ...
Don"t let stupid be your skill set....
Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......
I shoot an average of 800 rds per month, many more than the average LEO. Some Depts. are great at furnishing as many rounds as you want. Some are not so good. I'm on eof the lucky ones.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
The range I go to (1-2X per week) has a lot of police that practice there. My experience is that about 10% are excellent shots, maintain safe and expert gun handling skills and make me truly want to aspire to their level. Then there are the 10% at the bottom that are accidents waiting to happen. I've seen them hit the ceiling with fire, sweep the room with a loaded weapon, carry loaded from one port to another, try to clear a jam with the barrel pointed at another shooters feet. And the list goes on. The range officer there does a good job of staying on top of this, but the first offense is usually committed before he can step in and correct the situation. The other 80%, to me, seems to be somewhere in the middle. This is not meant to bash LE, as I have certainly seen civilians pull some bonehead moves also, but since this thread deals with the former, I thought I'd add my observations. I also used to think that all cops were gun guys/gals. I learned a long time ago that this was not even close.
Now if the civilians you are referring to are going to a training facility that offers qualified training with certified instructors versus going to an open field and shooting at beer cans...then I would say yes to your question.
Last edited by black knife; December 7th, 2009 at 02:59 AM.
I shoot a lot. It is nothing for me to shoot several hundred rounds a week through various guns.
I usally breeze through the required quals without much effort. I am the exception to the rule though, most of the others cant shoot as well.
One thing of interest though, most of our Reserves shoot better than most of our full timers.
Just a few days ago I practiced drawing and dumping full mag loads on steel B27 targets.To me it is fun. To others it is work.
I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.
AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
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Hey y'all: Do not know numbers but I go every other week to a gunshop/shooting range in the Charleston, SC area and almost every time I am there, a number of LEO's from police to Homeland Security to border patrol, to other officers with firearms are there. In some instances, the officers may actually practice with the somewhat common changeover on their weapons from 9mm or 45 to 22 LRs. Glock and Sig, for example have kits that are easily adaptable to the main firearm; its still the LEO's firearm but practice $$$ are a whole lot less
"You fight the way you Train"
I have a good friend who is a RO for a Federal agency. According to him the more senior they are the harder time they have qualifying.
Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around laws. Plato
When my brother was in training for LEO he told me all these stories.
And the whole time Im thinking and these are the people who I depend on.
(He shot top gun by the way )
He also says that most of the guys rarley shoot...
its kind of sad, but thats why I have taught myself not to need them 100% of the time.
The Dalai Lama:"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun."
I work Diplomatic Security in Iraq, we only have to qualify once a year but I would say that 90% of those I work with hit the range at least once a week (the others at least once every couple of months). Heck we loaded up a couple of cases of 9mm, 5.56 and 7.62 today in hopes that we can hit the range tomorrow (hard sometimes since it gets dark here at 1700 hrs).
Glock 19 & Glock 26
Dept of State Diplomatic Security
Just because they are LEOs doesn't mean they are gun oriented people. I have read in several places that some LEOs are lousy shots. If you are one of those who practice or shoot twice a year to qualify I don't see how you can be proficient with a firearm. I wonder how many LEOs carry concealed on off duty hours.
One of my good friends is a cop and he seems to be an exception from some of what people here say.
1. He doesn't live in the same city he works in
2. He carries while off-duty
3. He owns several other firearms
4. Although he doesn't get to the range "as often as he'd like", he still makes it happen every month or so.
If he's going to be in a dangerous profession, I would prefer he be this way.
I believe that the following statistics apply in ALL professions (including LEOs).
In each profession there are those that are masters at what they do. They study and spend sometimes large chunks of personal time to be really good at what they do. They are dedicated to excellence.
This is about 10% of those in any particular profession.
There are those that are pretty good at what they do but don't spend much time or energy trying to be better. They put in their time and that's about it.
This is about 70% of those in any particular profession.
There are those that are really bad at what they do and don't care.
This is about 20% of those in any particular profession.
Unfortunately, this also true of doctors, lawyers, politicians, and everyone else we really hope to count on.
When you need someone the chances are that those that fall in the 70% category are ones you will get;
second best bet, the 20% category;
and good luck trying to find anybody in the 10% category (they are so rare).
How does this relate to this post? Only about 10% of LEO's will spend their own time trying to become more proficient at their job - this includes shooting.
Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other"
"In a moment of crisis you will not rise to the occasion, you will default to your level of training". http://www.FreedomTrainerTarget.com
I can really speak to this issue. I was a Deputy in KC a long while back, but no too long. :D When I went through the academy there were folks who had never fired a gun in their life. The one gal actually started crying and shaking when she stepped up to the firing line, she was so scared. In the previous class, a gal who had never shot before inadvertently double-tapped her Glock with the quick reset trigger and grazed a valley in her own forehead coming off the recoil. She used to be a pretty gal. Now she's just luck her brain-housing group is still intact.
We had range days on Saturday. The training officer would go out to the range (only about a 15 min drive) and be the RSO and provide ammo. Out of over 300 cops there would only ever be about 10 guys shooting.
Me and a few of my shift partners would shoot a good couple hundred rounds a month at a local indoor range that gave us free range time as LEOs and a discount on ammo. But we were the exception.
The scary thing is nearly all of the dept carried off duty. It was department policy (I'm assuming because of attitudes that there were plenty who ignored this) that we do so. So you have 300 people running around the city armed who have virtually no training or experience whatsoever. And these are the folks you are supposed to rely on. Okay, whatever.
It made me so disgusted that I quit and joined the Marine Corps where I knew they took shooting seriously.
NRA Certified Instructor (6 years)
Former LEO/DOD Contractor
Active Duty Marine (Martial Arts Instructor)
Glock 17, Kel-Tec P-11, S&W Model 60, various rifles