Be Honest

Be Honest

This is a discussion on Be Honest within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I was wondering how many in law enforcement regularly practice shooting between qualifications? I have been told that other then SWAT team members some officers ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array FreedomTrain's Avatar
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    Be Honest

    I was wondering how many in law enforcement regularly practice shooting between qualifications? I have been told that other then SWAT team members some officers rarely shoot at all between qualifications. If this is true, would it be due to budget constraints, personal choice or both? Are civilians training more than LE or am I all wet?
    "In a moment of crisis you will not rise to the occasion, you will default to your level of training". http://www.FreedomTrainerTarget.com


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    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Kind of an interesting question actually, and I'm intent on hearing the results. I wouldn't venture to guess at them though. Personally, I hope I do train and shoot more than most of the law enforcement personnel. I owe it to myself to do that and be the best I can be at any particular time. As with law enforcement, some I'm sure look at it as the job specifically. Take me for instance.......I like my job, it's a job, and sometimes I get on the job training, and that's mainly by me figuring out machinery and problems on my own. I've seen a lot of hard days at work, and a few decent days, but they're all mostly long days, and when I clock out from work, the last thing I want to do is get further training. I'd much rather go home and relax. But of course when I go to the shooting range, or a local match....all of that is included in my allotted time for relaxation!

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    I have discussed this very issue with several of my friends/associates who are still in that profession. Only one, my neighbor, regularly shoots, the rest only shoot once or twice a year. Two of them don't even go armed when not in uniform.
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    Distinguished Member Array orangevol's Avatar
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    Most LEO's that I know, (other than the SWAT officers) shoot their twice a year qualifying course.

    On a recent trip to the range, I was shooting in a lane next to a female Sheriff's deputy. It was sad. Let's just say...if I was the bad guy...I wouldn't mind her shooting at me.
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    Distinguished Member Array Spec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    I have discussed this very issue with several of my friends/associates who are still in that profession. Only one, my neighbor, regularly shoots, the rest only shoot once or twice a year. Two of them don't even go armed when not in uniform.
    unarmed and an LEO off duty... not smart My dad's friend was a cop, put a drug dealer away for 20 some years. The friend was off duty looking at some cars at a used car dealership, when this big guy that he put away 20 or so years ago, walks up and says "hey don't i know you from somewhere, the cop pooped himself because he left his gun at home that day. not to smart...
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    Member Array FreedomTrain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    Kind of an interesting question actually, and I'm intent on hearing the results. I wouldn't venture to guess at them though. Personally, I hope I do train and shoot more than most of the law enforcement personnel. I owe it to myself to do that and be the best I can be at any particular time. As with law enforcement, some I'm sure look at it as the job specifically. Take me for instance.......I like my job, it's a job, and sometimes I get on the job training, and that's mainly by me figuring out machinery and problems on my own. I've seen a lot of hard days at work, and a few decent days, but they're all mostly long days, and when I clock out from work, the last thing I want to do is get further training. I'd much rather go home and relax. But of course when I go to the shooting range, or a local match....all of that is included in my allotted time for relaxation!
    You have said pretty much the same thing that I have heard from those in LE. Since it is part of thier job, the last thing they want to do after work is more work related things.
    "In a moment of crisis you will not rise to the occasion, you will default to your level of training". http://www.FreedomTrainerTarget.com

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    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomTrain View Post
    You have said pretty much the same thing that I have heard from those in LE. Since it is part of thier job, the last thing they want to do after work is more work related things.
    Yep. And you've stated in one sentence what took me a whole paragraph to explain. I'm over-thinking again.

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    Senior Member Array XD in SC's Avatar
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    Well, I know my dept is out of ammo for the year, and we are supposed to get XD45s sometime soon, so I doubt we're going to get anymore .40.

    Glad I have a small stash to practice with....
    Sean
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    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    I've talked with a bunch of LEO firearms instructors - getting people to the range just to qualify is like pulling teeth. They're the first to say, in general, cops are horrible shots and don't practice like they should. I understand the "it's the job thing", but that's the tool that when you need it, you really freakin' need it. One instructor had a student that honestly didn't think that a handgun bullet would travel 100 yds. More and more jobs these days, you just need to realize that some of "your" time will be spent training for your job. For cops, exercise would be another example. Even taking a couple of hours out of one day/month to put 300 rnds downrange would drastically improve their proficiency.

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    Senior Member Array sheepdog's Avatar
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    The percentage of officers that are "gun nuts" may be bit a higher than the public at large-depending on similar demographics (same age and percentage of males, same geographic/cultural background), but even fewer are practicing or recreational pistol shooters. There are a lot more shotgun/bird shooters and rifle/deer hunters at my department than pistol shooters. Just because a guy carries a gun at work doesn't mean he even wants to touch one otherwise, as posted by Freedom Train and seconded by Ram Rod. For many, it is just a tool for work, about as interesting as a Crescent wrench.
    Yes, when you need it, YOU REALLY NEED IT, as the above poster says, but for a dozen reasons, that does not apply. Bad things always happen to somebody else, right? Same reason why for years, nobody wore safety belts and some still won't wear body armor. Nobody wants to think it will happen to them and there is, I think some part of the human brain that thinks hope has power and denial is a plan. Other things also come into play. I saw an article in a magazine about why cops don't shoot by Mas Ayoob years ago, and he hit the nail on the head repeatedly and accurately back then. Bet it's posted out there somewhere.
    As far as civilians training more than officers...some do, and some that carry guns think they are training when they are just shooting or maybe even further ingraining unsafe, bad, or undesirable habits...which some of the cops do, too.

    "Even taking a couple of hours out of one day/month to put 300 rnds downrange would drastically improve their proficiency."
    Unquestionably, even ten minutes of dry fire a day, never mind live rounds once a month, would do wonders for most of us....and I count myself in the guilty of not doing it!
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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I know when I was an LEO in the mid 80's we had range day once a month,you could even take time off in your shift to shoot your 100 rounds the department furnished for practice,out of about 50 uniformed officers there were only about 10 that showed up regularly and at least 1/2 only showed up to qualify
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    Senior Member Array gdm320's Avatar
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    Isn't this disturbing trend enough to convince people they need to carry to protect themselves?

    If you are unarmed and dial 911 to have them come save you not only do you have to hope they happen to be standing outside your door with a battering ram BUT you also have to hope they manage to actually hit the bad guy.

    "Bravery is the capacity to perform properly even when scared half to death." -- General Omar Bradley

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    Senior Member Array Plop's Avatar
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    I'm not an LEO, but I have friends that are. There are only a few LEO's in my city that have personal firearms in addition to their issued weapons, the rest only have their issued weapons. I go shooting with the ones that have personal firearms (they use their own ammo), and they practice more than I do. But I definitely practice more than the LEO's who aren't into guns. I think it comes down to a personal choice.

    -Plop
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    Member Array ranburr's Avatar
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    I know very few cops who shoot. And of the ones who do practice, very few of them can shoot. I have literally cut pistols out of duty holsters for officers who spilled untold numbers of cups of coffee and sodas on them. I had one 16yr veteran come into my range and I had to load his magaziness because he didn't know how. He had been carrying that same pistol for 16yrs. It goes on and on.

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    Retired Calif LEO. Our Dept required annual qualification. Budget issue restricted to just once per year, but it was mandatory. Had to qualify with shotgun, mini 14, and .38 pistol. You got three try's to qualify, if you couldn't, you were suppose to lose your Peace Officer status. Often, however, the range officer would use his 38 cal pencil to punch the requisite holes in the target. Bummer. I'm happy I'm retired and away from them.
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humans do not rise up to the occasion but rather revert to level of training

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in a crisis, you will not rise to the occasion, but merely default to your level of training.

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who stated: in a moment of crisis you will not rise to the occasion, but merely default to your level of training

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?in a moment of crisis?you will not rise to the occasion?...... you will default to your level of training?

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?in a moment of crisis?you will not rise to the occasion?.?. you will default to your level of training?.

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