Things that draw attention....or should

This is a discussion on Things that draw attention....or should within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Mercop, Once again great class/lecture/advice. Alot of folks talk SA but few are willing to walk it. Well Written keep it up...

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Thread: Things that draw attention....or should

  1. #16
    Member Array hengst's Avatar
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    Mercop,
    Once again great class/lecture/advice. Alot of folks talk SA but few are willing to walk it. Well Written keep it up

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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2ndAmend View Post
    Also a lot of military people travel from state to state and it is not uncommon to see bumper stickers from other states when the vehicle has different tags. I can see your point of view on the two or more guys driving around at night but I DD for people all the time and there are normally two or more guys in the car with me.
    I'll second that line of thinking, although I see exactly what the OP is talking about. Being in a military town and having patroled on base I've seen some questionable 'set-ups' on out of state plates and tags. It still raised my curosity and I've called in checks more than once.

    But that's just the enviroment I live in. Again, overall the OP's right on and this is a great post to look at and think through. The two or more people 'hanging around' sharing looks/nods/jestures are not up to any good.

    As for the two or more males driving around.......a group of military guys going or coming from a 'night out' is sometimes pretty obvious and thier not/wouldn't be scoping out a side of town they'd normally not be in. DD's (which has thankfully become the standard around our base......sometimes training does sink in) are most likely dropping off and wouldn't be looking for a felony to get into.

    Paco is right, SA is life and the basis of trouble aviodance.

    Again, great thought-provoking post.
    "Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008

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  4. #18
    Senior Member Array mercop's Avatar
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    I worked in a military town too. It is the totality of the circumstances.- George

  5. #19
    Distinguished Member Array ArmyCop's Avatar
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    I passed that on to my daughter. Thanks for posting.
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  6. #20
    VIP Member Array grady's Avatar
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    Good information and observations. I hadn't thought of the "new license plate bolts on an old car", and I've never seen zip ties holding a license plate... but then again, I wasn't looking that close. Good observations.

    I profile every day.

    Here's a recent example: driving west on I-70 in St. Charles, MO, during heavy traffic. Cars zipping in and out of lanes. I come upon a late 80's model Chevy truck, the kind with a HUGE back window that shows everything inside. The truck is on big boondocker tires.

    Inside are two males, probably mid-twenties, muscular, both heads totally shaved, both wearing camo jackets. The jacket collars aren't standing up as I've seen with military guys. No military hats.

    These guys are driving the speed limit while everyone else is cutting in and out among them.

    They are both staring straight ahead, stone cold with no movement whatsoever.

    No detail in and of itself stands out, but in the totality of all, they scream "skinheads". (And for all you guys who like to shave your heads, I have no issues with that whatsoever. Saves time combing.)

    I guestimate I've seen maybe 100,000 drivers here in St. Louis over the years, and these guys scream "skinheads" or militia members more than all the other drivers put together.

    I'm thinking if I pull up next to them and they look over and see my wife, that may be the trigger that sets them off. So I back off, deciding I didn't need to be where I was going quite so fast after all.

    It is my purest intention to profile every day of my life, and to make resultant decisions based on my profiling that might extend the life and health of me and my family.

    Quote Originally Posted by mercop View Post
    I worked in a military town too. It is the totality of the circumstances.- George
    Exactly. The same for my story.

  7. #21
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    re: Grady

    Quote Originally Posted by grady View Post
    They are both staring straight ahead, stone cold with no movement whatsoever.

    No detail in and of itself stands out, but in the totality of all, they scream "skinheads". (And for all you guys who like to shave your heads, I have no issues with that whatsoever. Saves time combing.)
    Kojak in Camo. If you don't get the allusion, your'e still a young man. Congrats.

  8. #22
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    You'll notice everything covered in this thread and then some...if you really do have a plan to kill everyone that you meet.
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  9. #23
    VIP Member Array grady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Kojak in Camo. If you don't get the allusion, your'e still a young man. Congrats.
    Yep. Except no lollipop.

  10. #24
    Member Array AWDeanSr's Avatar
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    Mercop, I will not even attempt to pretend to know what a law enforcement officer's job is like. However, Just arbitrarily stopping people over situations like a woman driving a man around, or two guys going somewhere together makes my blood boil.

    I try to have my wife drive whenever we go some where because I do not care to drive much. I also go fishing sometimes with another guy....So according to your post, I should expect to be harassed by a LEO?

    Just my Libertarian viewpoint...if a majority of LEO's follow such tactics as you describe, America has some serious problems!

    I lived in a really bad neighborhood several years ago. Prostitution and drug deals out in the open. I begged the local PD to just simply come over and sit in my house and watch. They declined. Not long after my offer, there were several shootings and a person was beaten to death with a hammer by these criminals who openly flaunted their life of crime.

    Guess the local Police were too busy with traffic stops to be bothered with my neighborhood's problems.
    Last edited by AWDeanSr; December 11th, 2009 at 06:51 PM. Reason: zombie attack
    1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:



  11. #25
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mercop View Post
    Your damn right it it profiling, you know how we know so much about profiling? Because it works. Learn to play "one of these things don't look like the other".
    It's not foolproof, no. But then, nothing is. However, LIFE is a game of determining patterns and identifying what's out of place. Surviving often depends on it. It applies to identifying predators in the wild and on the street. Fail to consider such things at your peril.

    Quote Originally Posted by AWDeanSr View Post
    However, Just arbitrarily stopping people over situations like a woman driving a man around, or two guys going somewhere together makes my blood boil.
    If you re-read, you'll (hopefully) realize that's not what was said.

    Solely relying on a single flimsy piece of apparent situational mismatch often isn't supported by other things. But police have a tough responsibility of supporting liberty while rooting out evil and catching it in the act. A bit of spot checking to determine whether an indicator is supported by corroborating factors isn't criminal or a bad thing. It works, it's legal, it's appropriate and a normal part of the everyday tool chest that most good LEO's use to do the job.

    Fact is, such indicators of what's out of place often are all you're gonna get, even as a citizen simply becoming aware of missing pieces on the street. It's these little factors that help us get ahead of the curve we're so far behind on in an attack. Among other things, survival can depend on our paying attention to the degree of recognizing the applicability of such things. LEO's are no different.

    Quote Originally Posted by grady View Post
    I profile every day.
    I do so, as well. It takes practice and can be hard to maintain at a high level. But, after doing so for nearly 20yrs, it's just a part of my visual/mental scan of the field as I am moving through it.
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  12. #26
    Member Array AWDeanSr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post



    If you re-read, you'll (hopefully) realize that's not what was said.

    Solely relying on a single flimsy piece of apparent situational mismatch often isn't supported by other things. But police have a tough responsibility of supporting liberty while rooting out evil and catching it in the act. A bit of spot checking to determine whether an indicator is supported by corroborating factors isn't criminal or a bad thing. It works, it's legal, it's appropriate and a normal part of the everyday tool chest that most good LEO's use to do the job.


    .
    I believe he said
    Depending on the environment my attention is also drawn to a female driving with a guy in the passenger seat. This often means that the guy has a suspended/revoked license which is often a good indicator of other criminal activity.
    That is a very vague statement, to my understanding that leaves the decision to "spot check" as a subjective evaluation by the LEO. (arbitrary:contingent solely upon one's discretion)


    As I stated before, I have no idea what cops put up with on a day to day basis. I also believe that profiling is often a "good" thing. My problem is, after reading the NC General Statutes, It seems a LEO can find an infraction whenever he or she wants to.
    Last edited by AWDeanSr; December 11th, 2009 at 07:09 PM. Reason: mold
    1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:



  13. #27
    Senior Member Array ICTsnub's Avatar
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    So I profile hinkey?

    Three days a week, I carpool with another man, in the dark. We work 12 hour shifts, with nearly an hour drive on each side. It's a sad world if that is an excuse for a fishing expidition by PD.


    I work in the car biz, drive a ton, and am secure enough to let my sweetie drive while I ride on the right side. Sorry I profile out as a felon for being tired of cars.

    Every now and then, my sweetie's Jeep all girled up with stuffed animals is the easiest car to take to the store when I need bread or milk in a pinch, so just taze me on sight, ok?

    And oddly enough, one of the five vehicles at the house has the tag held on by zip ties, because the bumper is so queer. But, I would challenge anyone who would profile me for any of these sins to compare driving records, pee tests, or background checks with me.
    I'm not a lawyer or a LEO, just a pantload with a computer.

  14. #28
    VIP Member Array First Sgt's Avatar
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    Mercop...Great post....Those that maintain any kind of SA, profile each and every day whether they realize it or not. I think if most would reread your posts, they would understand that you were pointing out indicators that deemed a closer look, not indicators to immediately pull individuals. SIGH..Some folks just don't get it. JMO
    Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.

  15. #29
    Senior Member Array Frogbones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post

    I do so, as well. It takes practice and can be hard to maintain at a high level.

    It's not so hard when having to learn it/keeping it @ a young age cause of a bad neighborhood.

  16. #30
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    Of course there's exceptions to just about everything. I appreciate this post - it's good general info.

    Heck, I've been mistaken for a possible BG myself. I've heard some people auto lock their car doors when I was walking by. I didn't take it personal - just thought "Good for you - but you should have already had it locked before you saw me".
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