Combative Anatomy for pistol - Page 2

Combative Anatomy for pistol

This is a discussion on Combative Anatomy for pistol within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Yeah, so I showed this to my boss and then had to ask him what a "ball tap" was, because I've never heard the term. ...

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Thread: Combative Anatomy for pistol

  1. #16
    Distinguished Member Array Bunny's Avatar
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    Yeah, so I showed this to my boss and then had to ask him what a "ball tap" was, because I've never heard the term. And here I thought it was some complicated tactical maneuver.

    Warn me next time. I feel like an idiot now. lol!
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  2. #17
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    Talking

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunny View Post
    Yeah, so I showed this to my boss and then had to ask him what a "ball tap" was, because I've never heard the term. And here I thought it was some complicated tactical maneuver.

    Warn me next time. I feel like an idiot now. lol!

  3. #18
    Member Array LethalStang's Avatar
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    Great post !!! Always COM, headshots are hard enough when standing still, throw in movement, adrenaline, the shakes, and you're all over your backdrop which could be another innocent person. I like the idea of the pelvic area shot too... interesting.
    Quote Originally Posted by rottkeeper View Post
    If you are living your life worried about being a victim all the time and not enjoying life to the fullest, you are already a victim...
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  4. #19
    Senior Member Array RebelRabbi's Avatar
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    "Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson.

  5. #20
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    Called the "zipper", we've been training that in the ITFTS courses for over 5 years between 7677, Matt Temkin and myself.

    It's also known in some circles as "stitching", including some LE agencies on the west coast.

    The mind is the limiting factor

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  6. #21
    Senior Member Array mercop's Avatar
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    Again guys, I use Combative Anatomy to teach all of MCS to include open hand, impact weapons, edged weapons, and firearms. It is the study of how to stop people the fastest, not kill them eventually.

    This year after hundreds of force on force drills and scenarios within 10 yards a high estimate of head shots would be a dozen. And not one of those people claimed to have transitioned or done two to the head and one to the chest. They also don't report "aiming".

    IMHO besides practicing marksmanship (a skill you need to have too) shooting at inaminate stationary targets in preparation for a real personal protection scenaio is the same as driving on the highway to prepare for NASCAR.

    Brownie, in reference to the zipper, is this close to the same way you explain the anatomy and thought behind it?
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  7. #22
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    7677 explains this very well in this thread on the sight continuum.

    http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...continuum.html

    and in this thread on the zipper itself:

    The Zipper - Threat Focused Forums

    and in this thread on "The integration of gun fighting"

    The integration of gun fighting Part II - Threat Focused Forums

    Brownie
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  8. #23
    Senior Member Array HK Dan's Avatar
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    Y'all oughta talk to Dr. Jim Williams. host of "Tactical Anatomy", and an ER Trauma surgeon/LFI affiliate. Cheap class. and well worth the taking.
    "What does Marcellus Wallace LOOK like?"

  9. #24
    Member Array hengst's Avatar
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    Gotta go with the Rabbi on this one.

    I saw some Iraqi police (I saw!!) (long story not important) get shot in the groin, 2 of them at once. The reaction was not what any man would expect, I believe it hurt me worse thinking about it. I am a medic..they lived yep alot of blood. And yes a shattered pelvis will kill (femoral artery) But that guy has a bit of fighting left.
    I am not going to risk not getting 2 good high centerline, between the nipple area, shots (for starters) that will kill. Why start out over 18" lower? How many of you,under stress can keep centerline all the way up to the kill area firing rapidly? If you answered yes well more power to you Remember that is about four shots in rapid succession.

    The "zipper" also starts up higher hoping for penetration into the spinal column for paralysis.

    Now hand to hand well give em here. Not all "pressure" areas react equally with different types of forces. We could also try to stop the heart or lame an opponant with a punch to the sternum or spine...that wont workwell as a shot to the balls wont work well with a round or at least does not improve the situation enough to warrant it.
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  10. #25
    Distinguished Member Array Rugergirl's Avatar
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    When I shoot silhouette targets at the range, it's 2 in the chest, 1 in the head, 2 more to the chest and 2 in the pelvic region.
    Everytime I shoot this drill the RSO tells me the target is dead.
    Disclaimer: The posts made by this member are only the members opinion, not a reflection on anyone else, nor the group, and should not be cause for anyone to get their undergarments wedged in an uncomfortable position.

  11. #26
    Member Array Bm7b5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mercop View Post
    [...]Most traditional training has us bring our pistol to COM (usually high chest) before beginning to shoot. Doing this we miss have the COM by bypassing the groin to nipple line. There is no reason not to shoot in this area since the muzzle will pass it coming from our hip anyway (at least in a dynamic situation).
    Thanks for writing this up, mercop. However, the part of your post that I quote above seems to me to depend on a particular draw technique.

    When I draw the gun from the holster, the gun comes straight up until the gun clears the holster (and then some). I then rotate the gun, still at my side, 45 degrees so that the muzzle is pointed forward, and then I begin to push it forward, non-gun-hand meeting gun hand at torso, and then pushing out and aiming at same time (or immediately firing in extremely close quarters situations). Unless you are advocating that I begin firing as I make that 45 degree rotation (which happens in a small fraction of a second), my muzzle will not pass the adversary's groin as it comes from my hip.

    Maybe you teach a different draw technique, or maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are saying. Would love some clarification...
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  12. #27
    Senior Member Array mercop's Avatar
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    That is how I draw on the range too. Unfortunately it is not how I find students drawing during force on force scenarios where your feet are seldom on one plane and square to the target when you draw. It is even less so when your pistol is drawn after/during physical contact or while on your back. - Geogre

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by mercop View Post
    That is how I draw on the range too. Unfortunately it is not how I find students drawing during force on force scenarios where your feet are seldom on one plane and square to the target when you draw. It is even less so when your pistol is drawn after/during physical contact or while on your back. - Geogre
    I'm not sure why not being square to your attacker, or being on an uneven plane, or physical contact would make students draw differently. They either learned another draw stroke, their drawstroke simply doesn't work in those conditions, or they haven't practiced their drawstroke enough in those conditions. If it is because students aren't proficient with the proper drawstroke in a variety of conditions, I'd recommend that they spend time practicing a proper draw stroke in those conditions than practicing shooting techniques that rely on a random draw stroke.

    But, if for some reason one does find himself sweeping the muzzle up an attacker, your argument makes sense--there is no reason to wait until one gets to center of mass to start firing. I was just trying to apply what you said to the way I've been trained to draw and it didn't fit. Thanks for the clarification.
    A traffic ticket is formal recognition of a lapse in situational awareness.

  14. #29
    Senior Member Array mercop's Avatar
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    The only thing I can to is to invite you to a class to show you what I mean.

  15. #30
    Member Array JohnN's Avatar
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    I have always been a sighted fire shooter but after taking George's Combative Pistol class a few months ago he instilled the need to be threat focused at under 7 yards. We were usually moving to the forward oblique engaging the threat one handed in a zipper pattern (3-5rd. burst) from groin to chest. Doesn't make much sense to use a four or five step draw stroke when shooting one handed.

    For those who think that is inaccurate, I didn't see many rounds in two days outside a 2" span either side of the spine (4" centerline).
    "America is not at war. The Marine Corps is at war; America is at the mall."

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