Bad Guys and Vests

[BlueLion]

I was recently watching a T.V. show(documentary on Gangs) and the BG in the show wore body armour. I was also on another site and was told my service USAF is training to shoot 2 com and 1 head due to the increase in body armour overseas and home. Guys and Gals this should really spark us to start thinking about training this way if you are not. Just my 2cents...

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[CopperKnight]

Worth some serious consideration. LEO's have caught some in my area wearing or carrying them.

[Redneck Repairs]

my drill for years has been 2 to chest , if still standing drop aim to pelvic girdle and apply , then once they are down the head is more stationairy if needed , just my thoughts YMMV

[HotGuns]

I think that the armoured badguys are highly overated and in a serious minority. The thing is, if one BG gets in a shootout and is wearing one, we'll all hear about it for weeks on every news outlet there is, making the problem seem much worse than it is...

On the other hand...gangbangers wearing armour should be engaged with rifles...not handguns. Unless they are wearing raid gear the body armour wont matter...

[Redneck Repairs]

i agree with hot that it's an over rated concern , but at the same time if the bg dont go down , its time to change up not keep repeating what you were doing that didnt work , make your choice , but shift poa and shoot again after a couple or so

[BlueLion]

Yep...guys I at first thought that it was all hype also until I read how the military even had concerns surrounding it. However, every little bit of information is good.

[P95Carry]

Some hype maybe but - let's not forget the really dedicated badguys - remember the N Hollywood shootout? Top grade body armor and AK's - they took a lot of stopping, like 45 minute battle!

The odds are fortunately IMO in our favor - so unlikely we'd encounter this but - it'd be folly to assume it'll never happen. Just something to bear in mind when we train.

[AzQkr]

In the recent course I and another instructor put on in Pa., we taught the students to put 3-4 quick hits to COM and 1 to the head from the hip in one drill. This was performed from 6 feet.

You can give 2-3 quick shots and immediately go to the head from the hip without any effort at all. The students were all doing this on their first magazine, it's that easy once you have learned how.

It's called "the hammer"

Just another tool in the tool box, a tool thats owned to solve issues as they may arise like any tool.

Brownie

[dpesec]

Didn't a BG just have some Flak vests too. Mark Wilson took on rifle armed armored BG.

Natually, the BG won.

[Rugerman]

I was taught to zipper. Start at or just below belt and each consecutive shot walks up to the head.

[AzQkr]

Rugerman:

Is the way you do it starting from the hip and moving to full extension going up the body?, or from compressed ready?

We taught the students "The Zipper" as well last weekend. Starting at the hip and extending the arms out while firing up the body.

The Hammer is a different technique and stays at the hip, and faster to the head if that is where you are going anyway for whatever reason.

Brownie

[Joshua M. Smith]

Get an IDPA target. Replace the head with a balloon and let it swing from a tree.

Mark off the area a vest would cover. If more than two hit the vest consider yourself dead.

Out of respect for the LEOs and other good guys who wear the stuff, I will not go into the specifics of beating the stuff with a handgun. Suffice to say it doesn't usually take any special training; just modify what you know a bit, and there's nothing AP involved.

Josh <><

[joe/OH]

Regardless of body armor - failure to stop drills seem to be a good idea. I think the more likely situation would be that you just took out both lungs and heart of Bubba the Methed Out Psycho Killer and in the 8 seconds it's going to take him to loose conciousness, he'll have a knife in your gut.

[KC135]

As an OC [ordinary citizen] I worry more about an attack by a vampire than by a vested criminal.

Hitting the magic triangle is far more difficult than most realize. A hit in the rest of the head may not have the desired effect.

If I were involved in a failure drill, the below the belt area would be my target.

[Risasi]

As an OC [ordinary citizen] I worry more about an attack by a vampire than by a vested criminal.

Hitting the magic triangle is far more difficult than most realize. A hit in the rest of the head may not have the desired effect.

If I were involved in a failure drill, the below the belt area would be my target.

I seem to recall that Ayoob applied that philosophy years ago, don't know if he still does. Nobody likes getting shot in the nethers. And if you break the pelvic bone they are pretty much out of commission...