Grip angle.....smrip angle!

This is a discussion on Grip angle.....smrip angle! within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; but I also believe the is little reason not to find a natural fit either. Natural fit is a great place to start. But you ...

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Thread: Grip angle.....smrip angle!

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array Sweatnbullets's Avatar
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    but I also believe the is little reason not to find a natural fit either.
    Natural fit is a great place to start. But you do not have to be stuck with one angle. It is very easy to learn a different angle. The XD in the OP took me about a millisecond to learn.

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  3. #17
    Member Array LethalStang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweatnbullets View Post
    Not if you understand two things.

    "When you are rocking and rolling, the gun looks a certain way and it feels a certain way."

    If you can not seamlesly move from one grip angle to another you are not using your eyes. Eye/hand coordination requires actually seeing. If you try to index the gun and you shoot and miss, then you are not seeing your lack of index.
    Yes, this is a good point, however the majority of situations rely's on good point and shoot ability, not aiming with sights. You want to be able to just lift up the gun like it was one of your own fingers and point without looking at the gun, you always want to look at the target.
    Quote Originally Posted by rottkeeper View Post
    If you are living your life worried about being a victim all the time and not enjoying life to the fullest, you are already a victim...
    -You don't know what you don't see-

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  4. #18
    Senior Member Array Sweatnbullets's Avatar
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    Shooting handguns is not a fluid movement, however diversion and bodily movements should be.
    Shooting a handgun is nothing more than body mechanics. Fluidity in body mechanics is simple, even with a gun in your hand.

  5. #19
    Member Array LethalStang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweatnbullets View Post
    Shooting a handgun is nothing more than body mechanics. Fluidity in body mechanics is simple, even with a gun in your hand.
    I think we can just respectfully agree to disagree on this one from one gun guy to another.
    Quote Originally Posted by rottkeeper View Post
    If you are living your life worried about being a victim all the time and not enjoying life to the fullest, you are already a victim...
    -You don't know what you don't see-

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  6. #20
    Senior Member Array Sweatnbullets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LethalStang View Post
    Yes, this is a good point, however the majority of situations rely's on good point and shoot ability, not aiming with sights. You want to be able to just lift up the gun like it was one of your own fingers and point without looking at the gun, you always want to look at the target.
    You do not need to see your sights or focus on the gun to see what you need to see.

    There are a number of alternative target focused sighting methods.

    Type two focus (looking through your sights)

    Aligning down the top of the slide (looking over the top of the gun)

    Metal and meat (Silhuette of the gun)

    Front sight only (shooting outside of the notch)

    Lifting the gun up is not the best way to get the hits. Driving the gun to the focal point is the best way to get the hits.

  7. #21
    Senior Member Array Sweatnbullets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LethalStang View Post
    I think we can just respectfully agree to disagree on this one from one gun guy to another.
    You are welcome to read hundreds and hundreds of reviews of my courses if you are interested in learning something new. PM me if you want to know where to start. This is not theory, it is something that I sucessfully teach all of the time.

  8. #22
    Member Array LethalStang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweatnbullets View Post
    You do not need to see your sights or focus on the gun to see what you need to see.

    This is what i just said.

    Lifting the gun up is not the best way to get the hits. Driving the gun to the focal point is the best way to get the hits.
    Now you're just saying the same thing but with different words.
    Quote Originally Posted by rottkeeper View Post
    If you are living your life worried about being a victim all the time and not enjoying life to the fullest, you are already a victim...
    -You don't know what you don't see-

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  9. #23
    Member Array LethalStang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweatnbullets View Post
    You are welcome to read hundreds and hundreds of reviews of my courses if you are interested in learning something new. PM me if you want to know where to start. This is not thereory, it is something that I sucessfully teach all of the time.
    So instead of taking my bow out respectfully like i did, you're going to belittle my tried and proven methods too?? It works for me, that works for you, end of discussion.
    Quote Originally Posted by rottkeeper View Post
    If you are living your life worried about being a victim all the time and not enjoying life to the fullest, you are already a victim...
    -You don't know what you don't see-

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  10. #24
    Senior Member Array Sweatnbullets's Avatar
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    It was not meant that way.

  11. #25
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  12. #26
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    "My students and I are a capable of making the hits at any distance, from any position, from any angle, through our completely versatile drawstroke, one handed and two, with whatever movement is necessary."

    I find this a little hard to believe, so you are telling me that every single one of your rounds hits the target while running away one handed? at 15 yards? 25 yards?

    I would imagine that if there was a school putting out this kind of product that EVERY SWAT team, police instructor and Military trainer would be required to attend - but it isn't so.

    I have already stated my case, and what you call "fluid blah blah blah" I was refering to as mini postions - I under stand what you are peddling and I think I see it as what it is, free advertising for the newest, high speed zen shooting school.

    Like i stated prior, almost every kind of shooting you are doing in the video I have also done, its called getting off the "X". I strongly agree with that idea. What I disagree with you on here is this belief that flinging the gun around wily nilly is as accurate or will keep you safer than the traditional guard and retention shooting positions.

    I also take exception to you stating saying in your round about way that no one here is a decent defensive shooter until they have been to your school. Come to the range with me some time and we can see how that little theory holds up. Maybe you will learn a thing or two.

    Semper Fi.
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  13. #27
    Senior Member Array Matthew Temkin's Avatar
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    Col Applegate himself----(http://www.amazon.com/Kill-Get-Kille...&sr=1-1)----no newbie when it came to point shooting--talked a lot about grip angle and how a certain angle enhanced a handguns ability to point.
    Two of the Col's favorite "angle guns" were the Luger and Whitney Wolverine.
    Naturally very few people will choose such weapons so a method of teaching point shooting with guns of less than perfect grip angles had to be figured out.
    Which is why Applegate taught from the low ready/vertical lift position--something which I, BTW, find unnecessary for good point shooting accuracy.
    (But it will compensate for a poor grip angle for a student with limited experience/limited training time as was common during WW2.)
    I have point shot many guns with many angles and have yet to find one which required a change in my grip to use for either aimed or point shooting.
    Nor have I had to alter my shooting platform, which is pretty much one and two handed M.I. combined with driving the gun as opposed to a vertical lift.
    A very simple concept which does not have to be made overly complicated or overly explained.

  14. #28
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    Darn I am almost out of Pop Corn anyone have more!

  15. #29
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    Darn I am almost out of Pop Corn anyone have more!


    Glad someone brought up the Luger. Most natural pointer I've ever handled.
    Jackpine

  16. #30
    Member Array LethalStang's Avatar
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    Sorry guys, at least i tried to be respectful and understanding. Anyways, lets keep things on point. I myself think a good ole' 1911 feels the most natural in my hands and brings up to the target real nice. One of these days i'll be able to afford one....
    Quote Originally Posted by rottkeeper View Post
    If you are living your life worried about being a victim all the time and not enjoying life to the fullest, you are already a victim...
    -You don't know what you don't see-

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