Muzzle strikes

Muzzle strikes

This is a discussion on Muzzle strikes within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; How practical are muzzle strikes when using a polymer pistol? Most likely the gun will malfunction after pushing the slide out of battery and may ...

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Thread: Muzzle strikes

  1. #1
    Member Array JohnN's Avatar
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    Muzzle strikes

    How practical are muzzle strikes when using a polymer pistol? Most likely the gun will malfunction after pushing the slide out of battery and may very well cause a nasty type 3 malfunction at contact distance. Opinions?
    "America is not at war. The Marine Corps is at war; America is at the mall."


  2. #2
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    On occasion I practice that as part of a malfunction drill. One of the things I practice is 'arm's length' drills. Where the BG is within just a few feet. I also incorporate snap caps in the firearm to simulate a FTF.

    The idea is to be able to poke the BG should your firearm malfunction while in close quarters. The 'poke' to the BGs face should be HARD- cause damage & QUICK- to keep BG from grabbing it!....It will then allow you to get a little distance from BG & clear your weapon or go for backup.

    It is not my original idea, I actually saw this taught in a class a few years ago & I have since added it to my regular training.

    As to the issue of doing it with a poly pistol....I do it with a Glock23 & the only caveat I would add is, I wouldn't do it unless the firearm has already malfunctioned! I have knocked off the original plastic front sight on my wife's 23 while teaching her this......I have now replaced the sight with metal ones.
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith

    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

  3. #3
    Senior Member Array mercop's Avatar
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    The pistol punch is taught as part of Center Axis Relock. I have used them in real life and seen others use them. They are very effective. They have not caused the gun to go out of battery. I would hate to be struck with one with the slide locked back.- George

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    Senior Member Array threefeathers's Avatar
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    Vertical butt stroke, GO.

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    Senior Member Array mercop's Avatar
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    With a pistol?

  6. #6
    Senior Member Array David III's Avatar
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    With a Glock, you can hold the slide closed with the base of your thumb. Won't go out of battery and you can also fire with the pistol pressed into the target (but you have to cycle the slide manually).

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    Member Array Erik's Avatar
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    "How practical are muzzle strikes when using a polymer pistol?"

    As practical as muzzle strikes using alloy and steel framed pistols.

    "Most likely the gun will malfunction after pushing the slide out of battery and may very well cause a nasty type 3 malfunction at contact distance."

    Maybe a malfunction will occur; maybe not. Maybe any malfunction will be a type 3; maybe not. Regardless of frame composition, be prepared to clear any malfunction which presents itself. I've received training incorporating muzzle strikes: One advocated always performing a clearance drill following a muzzle strike; the other only as necessary. Over the course of perhaps hundreds of muzzle strikes delivered in training utilizing either inert or live cartridges prior to live fire, I've experienced a relative low rate of malfunction, usually cleared via a standard tap rack drill. Only one type 3 encountered, iirc.

    YMMV

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    Erik
    God, country, family.

  8. #8
    Member Array JohnN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David III View Post
    With a Glock, you can hold the slide closed with the base of your thumb. Won't go out of battery and you can also fire with the pistol pressed into the target (but you have to cycle the slide manually).
    I would think holding the base of your thumb against the back of the slide would compromise and weaken your grip on the gun. Not something you want to do that close to the threat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    "How practical are muzzle strikes when using a polymer pistol?"

    As practical as muzzle strikes using alloy and steel framed pistols.
    Muzzle strikes with a 1911 pattern pistol with an engaged thumb safety would be an excellent choice as the gun will not be pushed out of battery. A polymer pistol has no such option so would be more likely to malfunction or be damaged.
    "America is not at war. The Marine Corps is at war; America is at the mall."

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    Member Array BigFish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnN View Post
    Muzzle strikes with a 1911 pattern pistol with an engaged thumb safety would be an excellent choice as the gun will not be pushed out of battery. A polymer pistol has no such option so would be more likely to malfunction or be damaged.
    I consider one of the benefits to carrying a 1911 is that you can beat somebody with it if you run out of ammo.

  10. #10
    Ex Member Array ProShooter's Avatar
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    I was taught to do muzzle strikes to the forehead during a CQB class at Blackwater a few years ago.

    I think (honestly) that they are a stupid manuever that should only be used in a last resort type thing where you've run out of ammo and now, anything goes. Your gun has now become a brick. Muzzle strikes can cause a malfunction, it can take your weapon out of battery, your gun's muzzle could re-deflect back and be pointed towards you......any number of things.

    I'd much rather kick you in the groin or do an eye jammie than try to make my pistola into a battering ram on your forehead.

  11. #11
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    Unless the circumstances permit the disconnect should activate even if the trigger is pulled. In this case the striker remains ready the trigger would have to reset and then be pulled again.

    As far as pistol poking (heh) yeah a polymer pistol would do a good job. Did you think it would break or something? Heck a whiffle ball bat across the face wouldn't feel good either.

    I guess the main advantage of having an all steel pistol is that you can beat the BG senseless and there is a good chance of the pistol coming out unscathed.

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array hogdaddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by threefeathers;
    Vertical butt stroke, GO.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Quote Originally Posted by mercop;
    With a pistol?
    ^^^^^^

    With his foot
    H/D
    A Native Floridian = RARE


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    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by threefeathers View Post
    Vertical butt stroke, GO.
    So you stroke the bad guys butt up and down?

    Is that like rubbing a frogs belly to put him to sleep?

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    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC Bullseye View Post
    So you stroke the bad guys butt up and down?

    Is that like rubbing a frogs belly to put him to sleep?

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnN View Post
    How practical are muzzle strikes when using a polymer pistol? Most likely the gun will malfunction after pushing the slide out of battery and may very well cause a nasty type 3 malfunction at contact distance. Opinions?
    Punching someone in the face with a Glock will give them a free ticket to the "special people" bus enroute to the dentist.

    As to hurting the pistol, please.

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