UGLY Negligent Discharge in Orlando (Merged)

UGLY Negligent Discharge in Orlando (Merged)

This is a discussion on UGLY Negligent Discharge in Orlando (Merged) within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; NRA gun instructor shoots student by accident Instructor’s gun goes off, striking student in foot "A gun instructor accidently shot a student in the foot ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array FLSquirrelHunter's Avatar
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    UGLY Negligent Discharge in Orlando (Merged)

    NRA gun instructor shoots student by accident
    Instructor’s gun goes off, striking student in foot


    "A gun instructor accidently shot a student in the foot Saturday during an NRA class to receive certification to carry a concealed weapon, Orlando police said.

    Robert Frauman Jr., 50, was taken to Florida Hospital after instructor Michael Phillips' firearm discharged about 11:45 a.m., police said.

    Phillips, 32, could not be reached for comment. The accident happened at Summit Church, located in a former movie theater near he Fashion Square mall.

    The bullet went through a table before it hit Frauman, said Kristy-Lee Lawley, the church's communications director. She said Frauman, a member of the church, was "recovering well" and the bullet didn't break any bones.

    Frauman was one of three students in the class, which was not a church-sponsored event, Lawley said. She said the church offered an upstairs conference room for free after some church members requested to have the class there. Lawley said the church is empty on Saturdays and this was the first class of its kind there.

    "We won't be having anything like that in our church in the future," Lawley said.

    The church with 2,500 members is headed by Pastor Isaac Hunter, son of the Rev. Joel Hunter, senior pastor of the Longwood-based megachurch Northland, A Church Distributed. The churches are not affiliated.

    The NRA has a rule against bringing ammunition into a class, said Tom Wagner, a NRA instructor in Orlando who was not involved in Saturday's shooting. He said the association has "no problem yanking a certification if the rules are being broken."

    This was not the first time something's gone wrong during a gun demonstration in Orlando. In 2004, a special agent with the Drug Enforcement Administration shot himself in the thigh with a .40-caliber Glock pistol while talking to schoolchildren about gun safety."


  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array Rugergirl's Avatar
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    Disclaimer: The posts made by this member are only the members opinion, not a reflection on anyone else, nor the group, and should not be cause for anyone to get their undergarments wedged in an uncomfortable position.

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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    We won't be having anything like that in our church in the future," Lawley said.
    Thank you Mr. Phillips ....I'm gonna stop there before I get violated
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    She said the church offered an upstairs conference room for free after some church members requested to have the class there.
    Live ammo, for a seminar held in a conference room? Dumb, dumb, dumb.

    It's as much an error in siting judgment as it was failure to adhere to the four basic rules of firearms safety. Can't imagine why the facility's owners and the instructor would allow live ammo to be brought out except at a suitable facility (such as a legitimate range).

    We've all be "swept" by the muzzle, before. I always cringe when it happens, making clear what was just done and reminding folks to desist. When lives are at risk, you can't ever be too careful.

    1. A firearm is always loaded.
    2. Do not point the gun at anything you are not prepared to destroy.
    3. Keep your finger off the trigger until sights are on the target.
    4. Know your target and what's beyond it.

    And, apparently for these folks, at least:

    5. Don't use live ammo except at a suitable facility.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLSquirrelHunter View Post
    NRA gun instructor shoots student by accident
    Instructor’s gun goes off, striking student in foot


    ...The NRA has a rule against bringing ammunition into a class, said Tom Wagner, a NRA instructor in Orlando who was not involved in Saturday's shooting. He said the association has "no problem yanking a certification if the rules are being broken..."
    Ya' think?
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    Distinguished Member Array lacrosse50's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugergirl View Post
    yep, multiplied by about 1000....
    The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
    -Herbert Spencer

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    Hopefully not only will the NRA strip him of his Instructor credentials, but the state will strip him Firearms Instructors license and CC permit as well.
    Freedom doesn't come free. It is bought and paid for by the lives and blood of our men and women in uniform.

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    You just can't fix stupid!
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    I will never get it!
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  10. #10
    VIP Member Array Stevew's Avatar
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    Don't want to get shot by instructor while learning firearm safety.
    Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around laws. Plato

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array rottkeeper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    Hopefully not only will the NRA strip him of his Instructor credentials, but the state will strip him Firearms Instructors license and CC permit as well.
    I couldn't agree more.
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    He'll be lucky if he doesn't get sued too!
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

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    I think I know the vic. I can't confirm it, but a last name search in Florida yields interesting results and that's all I'll say about him. If it's who I think it is, he was my neighbor when I lived in that area and doesn't have the temperament or judgment to carry a firearm (unless he's changed his ways).
    Last edited by sniper58; February 21st, 2010 at 04:20 PM. Reason: add
    Tim
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    "It won't happen to me because I have been doing this for ________ years! And I was or have been a ____________ and have shot _________ rounds.
    And I have been involved and taught _____________ and have been
    certified as a trained professional expert _______________________ ."

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Warrior View Post
    "It won't happen to me because ... And I was or have been ...
    I don't think anyone is saying this, nor even thinking it.

    But, the opportunity for hindsight evaluation is all we get, when responding to such reports, if we're to learn anything from them.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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