Anyone Carry Pepper Spray?

This is a discussion on Anyone Carry Pepper Spray? within the Defensive Knives & Other Weapons forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Thanks Mercop and Glockman10mm for your replys. I like options to my response to a threat which may come in many forms. I also have ...

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Thread: Anyone Carry Pepper Spray?

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
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    Thanks Mercop and Glockman10mm for your replys. I like options to my response to a threat which may come in many forms. I also have had good results with pepper spray but as we all have said it does have some limitations. The Florida DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT (FDLE) puts pepper spray right after verbal commmands on it's USE OF FORCE CONTINUMM. It definately has it's place in a total defensive tactics plan. One of this forums sponsors is Tactical Defense Solutions. They have a line of less than lethal products including the complete ASP Defender Series. There site is worth a look and no I do not have a financial interest in it.
    "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".

    "A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves".

    http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/

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  3. #17
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    Whenever I'm walking the dogs, an ASP Palm Defender is a constant companion (along with the knife and sidearm). There are some known aggressive dogs on our walk and I'd prefer to at least start off with non-lethal force if defense is required. To Mercop's point, when I'm nearing a potential trouble spot, the Defender is in hand well in advance of getting there. Having to dig into a pocket, orient the tube in my hand and then pop the safety and spray is too fumble-prone to leave for the last second.

    That said, my caution to all is that OC spray is one of those "to whom it may concern" devices. If you're in a confined space (such as inside a car), or if you're outside and there's a breeze, you need to think in advance if using the spray is going to slow you down more than your attacker.

    Part of my routine "SA checks" when heading out with the mutts is, "is there a breeze blowing?"
    Smitty
    NRA Endowment Member

  4. #18
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    I EDC carry Aerko 'Freeze +P' OC/CS (LEO grade 1% per active ingredient at 2% combined volume) in 2oz. form factor as with a stream type nozzle.
    In my testing this type nozzle from this mfr. with this product reaches out a full car length away and can be easily directed to contact specific fine aiming areas as within a 5" square target/aiming surface...In light wind at less than ~10 mph (gentle breeze).

    Product MSDS; Freeze +P MSDS Printble Version

    I think of the OC/CS as being my primary defensive option, as a tool.
    Second to that as tools go is my sidearm followed closely by my knife.
    I'd far rather spray some one to slow them down and then leave...Than to draw on some one muchless shoot, and stay to have to explain why I killed a person.

    I 100% agree with Mercop as in regard to chemical sprays as being a tool toward "bridging" and "transitioning".

    As a civilian without concern nor need to act as a police, going into contact a person, I only need to be afforded extra seconds if not minutes so that I can flee/escape to safety. I don't care if the person can regain function within minutes and might be the one among the 10% of the population that OC doesn't affect highly (which is why I went with an OC and CS mixture product...Nobody is CS immune).

    Also I 100% agree with Mercops position on levels of force as related to citizens.
    On point that is.

    As to carry though I find it very easy to carry 4 seasons and my can is large at 2" diameter.
    Rather than use the typical OC carrier which are largely LEO stylized and by that bulky with intent for being worn overtly on a utlility belt. I instead use a modified cell phone carrier and wear that on my belt...concealed. I take it everywhere that is lawful, right along with my gun and knife.
    Easy.
    If I'm wearing cargo shorts that is the only exception as it will then not be on my belt but rather in a forward thigh pocket at my weak hand side, along with my cellphone.

    In my world a judge, jury and witnesses much more favor a GG who shoots a threat with 'pepper spray' than they do by view a GG who draws on never mind shoots a threat with a gun & bullets.

    As to being thought of as "karate in a can" I'd say anyone who has that thought should get their head checked, because if they have such thoughts toward this specific application tool then they are likely not informed enough if even mature enough to comprehend and understand the seriousness of the product. It should be, IMHO, thought of and treated same as a firearm as the same rules of use do apply.

    - Janq

    P.S. - Folks should know the potency of chemical sprays drops off with time from point of production.
    Check the month and year code on the product and replace annually. Dispose of old product appropriately per local and/or state hazardous materials regulations. Do not just toss it in a trash can (!).
    Last edited by Janq; May 9th, 2010 at 05:12 PM.
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array bsnow's Avatar
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    Wife and I are looking at doing it..Like you said time could come it would be the best option..
    Blessed be the LORD my strength which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight. PSALM 144:1

    I CLING to my guns and my Bible.

  6. #20
    Senior Member Array mercop's Avatar
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    Anyone have any stories where citizens use OC? If you are carrying OC please be sure to expose yourself to it before you need it. If you wear contacts you are going to want to take them our. - George

  7. #21
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    As a former OC counter assault trainer, I agree 100% that anyone, civilian or otherwise should be exposed to it before they carry it.

    In the "heat of the moment" (pardon the pun) anyone deploying it could get some accidental blow back, and they really would be better off if they know the effects of it.

    When I gave a can to my mom, I gave her a mini-training course on it. At 73 years old, I let her pass on getting sprayed in the face although I would have preferred her to have some sort of exposure, even by wiping some on her face, but hey... it was my mom.

    I prefer the stream nozzle as opposed to the fog, as it will penetrate a light wind breeze better than the fog nozzle.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  8. #22
    Distinguished Member Array Knightrider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by searcher 45 View Post
    Do not carry OC, but have thought it to be a good thing to add to my EDC.
    X2

    But I much prefer to have a taser vs OC spray
    Glock: G22 .40 S&W and G23 .40 S&W Sig Sauer: P938 9mm Smith and Wesson: Model 437 .38 Spl, Model 65 357 Mag, and Sigma SW9VE 9mm

  9. #23
    Distinguished Member Array kapnketel's Avatar
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    I gave spray to each of my daughters to carry on their keychaims. I also gave one to my wife, her work does not allow CC while on the job so she has to leave her handgun in the car. Pepper spray gives her some defensive capability coming from and going to the car.

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    I've been contacted by a few asking for info on the OC 'cell phone' carrier I use.

    Below are the details as taken from a follow up e-mail I'd sent a LEO (deputy sherrif) as well as lead instructor at the S&W Academy where he saw me training and carrying my own in what he initially thought was upside down position.

    He's known me several years now and figured I would not be carrying in that manner or method without a good reason, and so by that being curious he asked why.
    Since this convo he now has added this method to his repertoire of carry options in training his civilian students as toward discrete carry...And he now uses the same method after running his own testing.

    Quote Originally Posted by My E-Mail from a year ago
    The version of 'phone holder' I use is the following...


    foneGEAR Genuine Leather case for large cellular phones

    The case had to be able to endure physical activity such as running, biking and horsing around with my kids including jumping.
    Also as we discussed it had to be average person discreet as in covert. Not for being 'tactical' but so that I could do my normal life activitys and generally pass as just another guy carrying just another black thing on the belt/at the waist.

    While standing in the store I had brought along with me the container of OC/CS.
    But rather than use it directly to test for fit and form I'd walked the hardware store and found various objects of same diameter and same length to approximate fit before paying for the holster itself.

    This case not only supports covert carry but also allows for great flexibility in how it's worn on the body, and off.
    For example when driving I clip it to the lap belt of my seat belt both for comfort and for quick access if need be. Where I come from, DC and MD, car jackings are every day normal and not just in the so called bad areas/neighborhoods of town. Yeah I live in Amherst but this is MA and crime occurs....And I have a responsibility and mission to be home in time for dinner with my kids. Period.

    Also this case allows very easy and quick as well as _silent_ deployment if/when needed.
    Other cases as commonly applied toward police work did not well support thisand/or had snap cap covers and such which are mission application purposeful...But a detriment for civilians who may need right now right here type fast action deployment.

    The only thing I have not done yet, and it's only because I haven't bought the paint yet, is to spray paint the bottom 1/3rd of the can with black spray paint or dip it into a jar of same.
    Reason being the base of the container is bright aluminum and the label gives it away as being something other than a geeks electronic techno wiz bang tool. I need to do this for maximum covert carry and I'd suggest same to any student. Even black nail polish or electrical tape would work in a pinch but not likely last all that long nor pass scrutiny as well.

    I have not tried this beyond being at a gun range but I bet it would be quite easy to _open carry_ as in plain sight this relatively large can as within the holster on ones hip among say a hip/belt mounted cell phone/PDA (very common these days) or be worn just at or below ones shirt line (summer) without raising an eyebrow.
    I personally though would not do nor try this simply because again where I come from and grew up the biggest crimes of them all are snatch & grabs....Where people will pull the gold teeth ('fronts') out your mouth, preceded by a sucker punch to the back or side of the head, as along with any chain, watch or whatever else might be outwardly visible on your person. I've seen a kid get jacked and lifted from behind off the ground for his shoes!

    My wife thinks I'm funny when I tell her tales of my world, before I ever heard of her world of [Small suburban/rural town in W. MA].
    In my world coming up the only people laughing were and are tourists and marks who hadn't been jacked, yet.

    I have been using this device full time now for over 6 mos including during our family vacation to the beach last summer.
    It's worked excellent for me as slightly modded (custom pressure fit).

    I hope you find this info and view useful for your students.
    I've since sending this message wrapped the lower third of the container in black/graphite skateboard tape.
    Doing this both better obscures the product can AND it provides a good low slip surface for my hand to grasp should I need to with a sweaty or even bloody palm. It does not interfere with draw speed/effort.

    To custom re-curve the case to the OC can I'd used a size D battery as a slightly smaller OD facsimile, and placed it inside the holster than placed them together inside my freezer as over night (approx 12 hrs.).
    In doing so the case material took a set to the battery shape while the elastic that supports closure of the case flap being kept at low temps did not lose it's elasticity.
    The next day I removed the unit from my freezer, test fit my OC container for ease of draw as well as security in retention (I did jumping jacks with it clipped to my belt)...And the rest has been now over a year of carry everywhere history.

    I store the container in the carrier top side up so that I can discreetly and quickly with a downward pull motion draw the product from the holster in hand. When inserting the product into the holster I always make note to face the nozzle forward facing. Doing so allows for a quick draw and natural settle into my hand without having to consciously figure out where the nozzle is pointing _after_ the draw.
    This in testing works 9 out of 10 trys. Not perfect (10/10) but it's far better overall than most any other option I'd investigated including key chain carry.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  11. #25
    Member Array Thegear234's Avatar
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    I carry one of two things either an ASP Palm defender or one of Cold Steels Inferno pens. OC is just another tool in the toolbox I carry edged weapons, a Kubotan, Comtech Stinger and my XD .45 so its well rounded.
    Last edited by Thegear234; May 10th, 2010 at 01:16 PM.
    Live in yellow or die in white.

  12. #26
    Senior Member Array mercop's Avatar
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    Still on the lookout for use of OC stories?

  13. #27
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    Back in 1968 as a rookie Leo, we were issued mace.. while transporting a prisoner in the back seat who began to kick the windows out, I made the mistake of spraying into the back seat. We didn't have air conditioning in those days and mace quickly got me and had to stop the car on the interstate to irrigate my eyes.. Never touched the stuff since.

  14. #28
    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
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    Several years back a lady friend of mine was working as the night manager of a Wendy's restaurant in Ft. Lauderdale. I had given her a MX III First Defense pepper spray and we had practiced using and expired one to get use to aiming where the spray would go if she had to use it. I instructed her to have the spray in her hand when she was in situations that could be of a dangerous nature such as going to her car in parking lots , going up her apartment steps while alone, ect. I told her that if she was confronted by anyone to give a warning for them to keep back and if they did not to use the spray. One night after she had closed the restaurant she was exiting the rear door when she was approched by a "street person" who asked her for any left over food. She told him she had none and he continued to walk towards her. She told him to "get back" and as he continued to advance she was in fear for her safety so she used her spray. She said that he immediately put both hands over his face and she retreated back into the restaurant and locked the door and called the police. When the police arrived she said the "street person" was sitting on the pavement behind the restaurant in pain attempting to wipe the OC of his face with his shirt. He was charged with Loitering and Prowling and Assault. I gave her a new spray and a congradulations on a job well done.
    "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".

    "A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves".

    http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/

  15. #29
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    My wife and I carry Fox Labs Personal Pocket spray.

    Fox Labs International

    Never had to use it. But my wife carries it on the car keys and has it in her hand when she leaves a store. Mines in my left front pocket. I figure options are good. And we can carry OC spray in areas that you cannot carry a firearm, including schools in NC. That's a plus. And I can carry and use it if needed at work without loosing my job. Not sure if I could keep my job if I had to use a firearm.
    I prefer to live dangerously free than safely caged!

    "Our houses are protected by the good Lord and a gun. And you might meet 'em both if you show up here not welcome son." Josh Thompson "Way Out Here"

  16. #30
    Member Array shooter380's Avatar
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    Nope. No spray for me

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