Knives with CCW in MO.

This is a discussion on Knives with CCW in MO. within the Defensive Knives & Other Weapons forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Okay my Missouri brothers and sisters, I hope someone can verify this for me one way or another if I am interpreting the law correctly. ...

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Thread: Knives with CCW in MO.

  1. #1
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    Question Knives with CCW in MO.

    Okay my Missouri brothers and sisters, I hope someone can verify this for me one way or another if I am interpreting the law correctly.

    I hate legal mumble jumble and sometimes tend to over interpret things.

    I have a question regarding if the Missouri ccw allows you to carry other weapons which are otherwise prohibited to people without a ccw. Specifically item number 2, 12 & 20 which I highlighted in bold in the first quote of weapon definitions below.

    Now, looking ahead at the bottom quote "unlawful use of weapons - exceptions - penalties it appears that Subsection 4, pertaining to ccw permit holders, that a ccw holder can ignore the Subdivision item numbers 1, 8, 10 which I highlighted in bold type.

    Am I reading correctly that ccw permit holders can carry concealed, folding knives with blades over 4 inches, fixed blade knives, daggers, dirks, blackjacks and does this include switchblades, or are switchblades specifically illegal?

    I understand Federal Law still applies to places in item 8 & 10 such as federal buildings, schools and such, but if I understand correctly that no State charges will apply.


    Missouri Revised Statutes
    Chapter 571
    Weapons Offenses
    Section 571.010

    August 28, 2009

    Definitions.

    571.010. As used in this chapter, the following terms shall mean:

    (1) "Antique, curio or relic firearm", any firearm so defined by the National Gun Control Act, 18 U.S.C. Title 26, Section 5845, and the United States Treasury/Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms, 27 CFR Section 178.11:

    (a) "Antique firearm" is any firearm not designed or redesigned for using rim fire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898, said ammunition not being manufactured any longer; this includes any matchlock, wheel lock, flintlock, percussion cap or similar type ignition system, or replica thereof;

    (b) "Curio or relic firearm" is any firearm deriving value as a collectible weapon due to its unique design, ignition system, operation or at least fifty years old, associated with a historical event, renown personage or major war;

    (2) "Blackjack", any instrument that is designed or adapted for the purpose of stunning or inflicting physical injury by striking a person, and which is readily capable of lethal use;

    (3) "Blasting agent", any material or mixture, consisting of fuel and oxidizer that is intended for blasting, but not otherwise defined as an explosive under this section, provided that the finished product, as mixed for use of shipment, cannot be detonated by means of a numbered 8 test blasting cap when unconfined;

    (4) "Concealable firearm", any firearm with a barrel less than sixteen inches in length, measured from the face of the bolt or standing breech;

    (5) "Deface", to alter or destroy the manufacturer's or importer's serial number or any other distinguishing number or identification mark;

    (6) "Detonator", any device containing a detonating charge that is used for initiating detonation in an explosive, including but not limited to, electric blasting caps of instantaneous and delay types, nonelectric blasting caps for use with safety fuse or shock tube and detonating cord delay connectors;

    (7) "Explosive weapon", any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas bomb or similar device designed or adapted for the purpose of inflicting death, serious physical injury, or substantial property damage; or any device designed or adapted for delivering or shooting such a weapon. For the purposes of this subdivision, the term "explosive" shall mean any chemical compound mixture or device, the primary or common purpose of which is to function by explosion, including but not limited to, dynamite and other high explosives, pellet powder, initiating explosives, detonators, safety fuses, squibs, detonating cords, igniter cords, and igniters or blasting agents;

    (8) "Firearm", any weapon that is designed or adapted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive;

    (9) "Firearm silencer", any instrument, attachment, or appliance that is designed or adapted to muffle the noise made by the firing of any firearm;

    (10) "Gas gun", any gas ejection device, weapon, cartridge, container or contrivance other than a gas bomb that is designed or adapted for the purpose of ejecting any poison gas that will cause death or serious physical injury, but not any device that ejects a repellant or temporary incapacitating substance;

    (11) "Intoxicated", substantially impaired mental or physical capacity resulting from introduction of any substance into the body;

    (12) "Knife", any dagger, dirk, stiletto, or bladed hand instrument that is readily capable of inflicting serious physical injury or death by cutting or stabbing a person. For purposes of this chapter, "knife" does not include any ordinary pocketknife with no blade more than four inches in length;

    (13) "Knuckles", any instrument that consists of finger rings or guards made of a hard substance that is designed or adapted for the purpose of inflicting serious physical injury or death by striking a person with a fist enclosed in the knuckles;

    (14) "Machine gun", any firearm that is capable of firing more than one shot automatically, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger;

    (15) "Projectile weapon", any bow, crossbow, pellet gun, slingshot or other weapon that is not a firearm, which is capable of expelling a projectile that could inflict serious physical injury or death by striking or piercing a person;

    (16) "Rifle", any firearm designed or adapted to be fired from the shoulder and to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic cartridge to fire a projectile through a rifled bore by a single function of the trigger;

    (17) "Short barrel", a barrel length of less than sixteen inches for a rifle and eighteen inches for a shotgun, both measured from the face of the bolt or standing breech, or an overall rifle or shotgun length of less than twenty-six inches;

    (18) "Shotgun", any firearm designed or adapted to be fired from the shoulder and to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire a number of shot or a single projectile through a smooth bore barrel by a single function of the trigger;

    (19) "Spring gun", any fused, timed or nonmanually controlled trap or device designed or adapted to set off an explosion for the purpose of inflicting serious physical injury or death;

    (20) "Switchblade knife", any knife which has a blade that folds or closes into the handle or sheath, and:

    (a) That opens automatically by pressure applied to a button or other device located on the handle; or

    (b) That opens or releases from the handle or sheath by the force of gravity or by the application of centrifugal force.


    Missouri Revised Statutes
    Chapter 571
    Weapons Offenses
    Section 571.030

    August 28, 2009


    Unlawful use of weapons--exceptions--penalties.


    571.030. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly:

    (1) Carries concealed upon or about his or her person a knife, a firearm, a blackjack or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use; or

    (2) Sets a spring gun; or

    (3) Discharges or shoots a firearm into a dwelling house, a railroad train, boat, aircraft, or motor vehicle as defined in section 302.010, RSMo, or any building or structure used for the assembling of people; or

    (4) Exhibits, in the presence of one or more persons, any weapon readily capable of lethal use in an angry or threatening manner; or

    (5) Possesses or discharges a firearm or projectile weapon while intoxicated; or

    (6) Discharges a firearm within one hundred yards of any occupied schoolhouse, courthouse, or church building; or

    (7) Discharges or shoots a firearm at a mark, at any object, or at random, on, along or across a public highway or discharges or shoots a firearm into any outbuilding; or

    (8) Carries a firearm or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use into any church or place where people have assembled for worship, or into any election precinct on any election day, or into any building owned or occupied by any agency of the federal government, state government, or political subdivision thereof; or

    (9) Discharges or shoots a firearm at or from a motor vehicle, as defined in section 301.010, RSMo, discharges or shoots a firearm at any person, or at any other motor vehicle, or at any building or habitable structure, unless the person was lawfully acting in self-defense; or

    (10) Carries a firearm, whether loaded or unloaded, or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use into any school, onto any school bus, or onto the premises of any function or activity sponsored or sanctioned by school officials or the district school board.

    2. Subdivisions (1), (3), (4), (6), (7), (8), (9) and (10) of subsection 1 of this section shall not apply to or affect any of the following:

    (1) All state, county and municipal peace officers who have completed the training required by the police officer standards and training commission pursuant to sections 590.030 to 590.050, RSMo, and possessing the duty and power of arrest for violation of the general criminal laws of the state or for violation of ordinances of counties or municipalities of the state, whether such officers are on or off duty, and whether such officers are within or outside of the law enforcement agency's jurisdiction, or all qualified retired peace officers, as defined in subsection 10 of this section, and who carry the identification defined in subsection 11 of this section, or any person summoned by such officers to assist in making arrests or preserving the peace while actually engaged in assisting such officer;

    (2) Wardens, superintendents and keepers of prisons, penitentiaries, jails and other institutions for the detention of persons accused or convicted of crime;

    (3) Members of the armed forces or national guard while performing their official duty;

    (4) Those persons vested by article V, section 1 of the Constitution of Missouri with the judicial power of the state and those persons vested by Article III of the Constitution of the United States with the judicial power of the United States, the members of the federal judiciary;

    (5) Any person whose bona fide duty is to execute process, civil or criminal;

    (6) Any federal probation officer or federal flight deck officer as defined under the federal flight deck officer program, 49 U.S.C. Section 44921;

    (7) Any state probation or parole officer, including supervisors and members of the board of probation and parole;

    (8) Any corporate security advisor meeting the definition and fulfilling the requirements of the regulations established by the board of police commissioners under section 84.340, RSMo; and

    (9) Any coroner, deputy coroner, medical examiner, or assistant medical examiner.

    3. Subdivisions (1), (5), (8), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section do not apply when the actor is transporting such weapons in a nonfunctioning state or in an unloaded state when ammunition is not readily accessible or when such weapons are not readily accessible. Subdivision (1) of subsection 1 of this section does not apply to any person twenty-one years of age or older transporting a concealable firearm in the passenger compartment of a motor vehicle, so long as such concealable firearm is otherwise lawfully possessed, nor when the actor is also in possession of an exposed firearm or projectile weapon for the lawful pursuit of game, or is in his or her dwelling unit or upon premises over which the actor has possession, authority or control, or is traveling in a continuous journey peaceably through this state. Subdivision (10) of subsection 1 of this section does not apply if the firearm is otherwise lawfully possessed by a person while traversing school premises for the purposes of transporting a student to or from school, or possessed by an adult for the purposes of facilitation of a school-sanctioned firearm-related event.

    4. Subdivisions (1), (8), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section shall not apply to any person who has a valid concealed carry endorsement issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 or a valid permit or endorsement to carry concealed firearms issued by another state or political subdivision of another state.

    5. Subdivisions (3), (4), (5), (6), (7), (8), (9), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section shall not apply to persons who are engaged in a lawful act of defense pursuant to section 563.031, RSMo.

    6. Nothing in this section shall make it unlawful for a student to actually participate in school-sanctioned gun safety courses, student military or ROTC courses, or other school-sponsored firearm-related events, provided the student does not carry a firearm or other weapon readily capable of lethal use into any school, onto any school bus, or onto the premises of any other function or activity sponsored or sanctioned by school officials or the district school board.

    7. Unlawful use of weapons is a class D felony unless committed pursuant to subdivision (6), (7), or (8) of subsection 1 of this section, in which cases it is a class B misdemeanor, or subdivision (5) or (10) of subsection 1 of this section, in which case it is a class A misdemeanor if the firearm is unloaded and a class D felony if the firearm is loaded, or subdivision (9) of subsection 1 of this section, in which case it is a class B felony, except that if the violation of subdivision (9) of subsection 1 of this section results in injury or death to another person, it is a class A felony.

    8. Violations of subdivision (9) of subsection 1 of this section shall be punished as follows:

    (1) For the first violation a person shall be sentenced to the maximum authorized term of imprisonment for a class B felony;

    (2) For any violation by a prior offender as defined in section 558.016, RSMo, a person shall be sentenced to the maximum authorized term of imprisonment for a class B felony without the possibility of parole, probation or conditional release for a term of ten years;

    (3) For any violation by a persistent offender as defined in section 558.016, RSMo, a person shall be sentenced to the maximum authorized term of imprisonment for a class B felony without the possibility of parole, probation, or conditional release;

    (4) For any violation which results in injury or death to another person, a person shall be sentenced to an authorized disposition for a class A felony.

    9. Any person knowingly aiding or abetting any other person in the violation of subdivision (9) of subsection 1 of this section shall be subject to the same penalty as that prescribed by this section for violations by other persons.

    10. As used in this section "qualified retired peace officer" means an individual who:

    (1) Retired in good standing from service with a public agency as a peace officer, other than for reasons of mental instability;

    (2) Before such retirement, was authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and had statutory powers of arrest;

    (3) Before such retirement, was regularly employed as a peace officer for an aggregate of fifteen years or more, or retired from service with such agency, after completing any applicable probationary period of such service, due to a service-connected disability, as determined by such agency;

    (4) Has a nonforfeitable right to benefits under the retirement plan of the agency if such a plan is available;

    (5) During the most recent twelve-month period, has met, at the expense of the individual, the standards for training and qualification for active peace officers to carry firearms;

    (6) Is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and

    (7) Is not prohibited by federal law from receiving a firearm.

    11. The identification required by subdivision (1) of subsection 2 of this section is:

    (1) A photographic identification issued by the agency from which the individual retired from service as a peace officer that indicates that the individual has, not less recently than one year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the agency to meet the standards established by the agency for training and qualification for active peace officers to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm; or

    (2) A photographic identification issued by the agency from which the individual retired from service as a peace officer; and

    (3) A certification issued by the state in which the individual resides that indicates that the individual has, not less recently than one year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the state to meet the standards established by the state for training and qualification for active peace officers to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm.
    Thanks for any input.
    __________________
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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  3. #2
    New Member Array Crusty49's Avatar
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    I would recommend that you verify this on Keven Jamison's web site. He is a local lawyer who makes weapons something of a specialty. I also recommend his book on Missouri weapons and self defense law. (The section on CCW is on his web site.) The bottom line is that Missouri law is a concealed weapons law so you are not restricted to firearms and any weapon that you can legally own is OK. The limiting phrase is "legal to own". Switchblades are not legal to own in Missouri unless you are LE or active military.

    Hope this helps.
    Crusty

    Clinging to my faith and my guns.

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    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    While that is what the law says, MO's AG says no (correspondence via email) - the MO CCW law only applies to firearms. As Jamison would say, 'if you want to challenge it, get a 55 gal drum, fill it with $100 bills, bring it to my office and we'll get started'.

    I asked if fixed blade knives were legal to carry citing MORS 571.030.1 and .4. Here is the email I received:
    Mr. ,
    Missouri's concealed carry permit applies only to firearms. I've enclosed a link to the appropriate statute. I hope this answers your question.

    Section 571-101 Concealed carry endorsements, applicati

    Sincerely,
    -Chris Fehr

    Christopher R. Fehr
    Assistant Attorney General
    MO Attorney General's Office
    Governmental Affairs
    PO Box 899
    Jefferson City, MO 65102
    e-mail address: chris.fehr@ago.mo.gov
    Phone: 573-751-0023
    Fax: 573-751-5660

    My opinion is the AG need to go back to law school and also take a few reading courses. This may be one of the things MissouriCarry is fighting for via the legislature.

    Switchblades are legal to own in MO if you claim to be a knife collector - even if you are just starting your collection.
    - 571.020...
    1. A person commits a crime if such person knowingly possesses, manufactures, transports, repairs, or sells:

    (7) A switchblade knife;

    (9) Knuckles.

    2. A person does not commit a crime pursuant to this section if his conduct:

    (1) Was incident to the performance of official duty by the armed forces, national guard, a governmental law enforcement agency, or a penal institution; or
    (2) Was incident to engaging in a lawful commercial or business transaction with an organization enumerated in subdivision (1) of this section; or...
    (4) Was incident to displaying the weapon in a public museum or exhibition; or
    (5) Was incident to dealing with the weapon solely as a curio, ornament, or keepsake, or to using it in a manner reasonably related to a lawful dramatic performance;

  5. #4
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    The AG can have whatever opinion he wants, he's not a judge and I doubt he's going to take the time to weigh in on a case if I ever use a knife in SD. I guarantee you he didn't even write that email, a staffer did. The way the law is written, any lawyer should be able to clear you of any posession charges for a knife over 4". It's just whether or not you want to put up with the cost/expense.

    I carry a Benchmade Vex, which has about a 3.5" blade and would still be fine as a defensive knife if I needed it to be. But I don't plan on using a knife for defense. My gun is a Glock. My offhand knife is a snubnose 38. My letter opener is a Benchmade Vex.

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    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    True, but the rub is the expense/hassle part. FWIW, the local cops here are told not to carry fixed blade knives. Just passing on the info I have.

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    Member Array SCALPHUNTER's Avatar
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    Missouri can't make up it's mind. I have talked with the Sheriff's Dept, the local Police Dept, and CCW/NRA Attorney Kevin Jamison's Office, and the Attorney General's Office regarding whether or not Missouri's CCW covers guns only, or weapons in general. Sheriff's Office said it covers "weapons" hence it's a "Carry Concealed Weapons" permit. Police Dept agreed with the Sheriff's Dept. Jamison's Office said we can carry whatever we want, but the Attorney General says we can only carry guns, and knives with a 4" blade or less, otherwise we can be prosecuted. Also, Assisted Opener knives are now legal as far as the Federal Govt. is concerned, but Missouri has left them in a "gray" area so each indivdual "officer" can make it a judgement call if he catches you with one. He can bust you, or not, depending on what kind of day he's having. Wish we could lock these folks in a room together til they can make up their minds.
    "God hears all prayers, even when the answer is No."

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    Quote Originally Posted by SCALPHUNTER View Post
    Missouri can't make up it's mind. I have talked with the Sheriff's Dept, the local Police Dept, and CCW/NRA Attorney Kevin Jamison's Office, and the Attorney General's Office regarding whether or not Missouri's CCW covers guns only, or weapons in general. Sheriff's Office said it covers "weapons" hence it's a "Carry Concealed Weapons" permit. Police Dept agreed with the Sheriff's Dept. Jamison's Office said we can carry whatever we want, but the Attorney General says we can only carry guns, and knives with a 4" blade or less, otherwise we can be prosecuted. Also, Assisted Opener knives are now legal as far as the Federal Govt. is concerned, but Missouri has left them in a "gray" area so each indivdual "officer" can make it a judgement call if he catches you with one. He can bust you, or not depending on what kind of day he's having. Wish we could lock these folks in a room together til they can make up their minds.
    Amen to that brother... I'm not worried about switchblades. I already know they are off limits. Even cops and military can't carry them off duty as the statute says "must be in performance of their duty" in order for them to have one in their possession.

    However, what about a folding knife with say a 4.5 inch or a 5 inch blade.

    And specifically, what about a fixed blade knife? I've been toying with the idea of carrying a Kabar TDI fixed blade or maybe even a RAT Cutlery RC-3 concealed.

    Also, under the knife law, we are not supposed to carry "double edge" knives. Yet the way I read the ccw statute, is those of us with a ccw permit are specifically exempt from those laws.

    Does anyone have a ruling or clarification regarding fixed blade, double edge, and folding knives with blades over 4 inches? I'm only interested in these three issues.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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    Member Array SCALPHUNTER's Avatar
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    The Attorney General or Prosecuting Attorney's Office maintain, with or without a CCW, they will prosecute anyone caught carrying a blade over four inches long, with the exception of a straight blade when you're camping, fishing, hunting, etc. When I got my CCW, I was told by both the CCW instructor and the Sheriff's office that I could carry my gun and my 6" straight blade, and did so for a long time. Then I got an Email from a friend saying the Prosecuting Attorney's Office said they would prosecute anyone caught with a knife, folding or straight blade, longer than four inches, unless you were like in the country away from the general "public." CCW/NRA Attorney Jamison sent me an Email saying we can carry what we want, but if caught by an unsympathetic Officer, the Prosecuter's Office would nail us, and although if we were to fight the case, we would probably win, but it would cost a fortune in defense fees.
    "God hears all prayers, even when the answer is No."

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