Collapsible batons

This is a discussion on Collapsible batons within the Defensive Knives & Other Weapons forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; As I tell folks in class the one thing you can be sure of is that you have more to lose than the other guy ...

Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst 12345
Results 61 to 71 of 71

Thread: Collapsible batons

  1. #61
    Senior Member Array mercop's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    1,067
    As I tell folks in class the one thing you can be sure of is that you have more to lose than the other guy does.

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #62
    Member Array SteveCollins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    SW Missouri
    Posts
    45
    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    I have no problem "dropping someone" as you put it, but to ignore my agency's use of force policy, or relevant laws, as well as public perception, is foolish at best.

    While you may be really good at teaching the jump up and down, run around, and roll in the dirt stuff, I think I'll look elsewhere for the articulation into why I did what I did when I did it stuff. There's two sides to a fight. The first side is the fight itself. The other side is the investigation and possible trial. To not be prepared for both sets one up for a significant life altering moment. We don't just get to cap the badguy and ride into the sunset. If you think that, I know plenty of inmates looking for a cellmate.

    Biker
    Before you take what I say personal, and then try to attack me personally, lets get a few things out there. My comments weren't directed at you personally, so don't take it that way. You have a department policy you need to follow, just like I had rules of engagement for 20+ years in the Army. I understand that. I've also taught the legal parts after the fight, along with how to fight. My issue is people getting so wrapped around the axle about what the public thnks, or trying so hard to use minimal force, or worrying more about what will happen in court, that they defeat themselves before the fight even starts. The public will never understand what you do as a law enforcement officer, and they will never understand the average CPL holder, so why worry about them? If you do the right thing, follow the law, and tell the truth, you'll probably be okay.

    You have an obligation to arrest and/or take suspects into custody, along with getting home alive at the end of your shift. The average CPL holder has no obligation to arrest or detain, just get home. There isn't some minimum force rule they have to follow, except maybe in some more asinine jurisdictions. If I'm attacked, why should I expect the bad guy to use minimum force? I don't, so I won't. I didn't start the fight, but I will finish it, and go home to my family, and I'll use whatever I need to do so. I can stand the court of public opinion, but I won't stand for my family being without me, if I can help it.
    Suarez International Staff Instructor

    "I am not afraid to go unarmed...I simply detest being unarmed. It is a contemptible and undignified condition in which to find oneself."

    NRA Life Member

  4. #63
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    State of Discombobulation
    Posts
    5,253
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveCollins View Post
    Before you take what I say personal, and then try to attack me personally, lets get a few things out there. My comments weren't directed at you personally, so don't take it that way. You have a department policy you need to follow, just like I had rules of engagement for 20+ years in the Army. I understand that. I've also taught the legal parts after the fight, along with how to fight. My issue is people getting so wrapped around the axle about what the public thnks, or trying so hard to use minimal force, or worrying more about what will happen in court, that they defeat themselves before the fight even starts. The public will never understand what you do as a law enforcement officer, and they will never understand the average CPL holder, so why worry about them? If you do the right thing, follow the law, and tell the truth, you'll probably be okay.

    You have an obligation to arrest and/or take suspects into custody, along with getting home alive at the end of your shift. The average CPL holder has no obligation to arrest or detain, just get home. There isn't some minimum force rule they have to follow, except maybe in some more asinine jurisdictions. If I'm attacked, why should I expect the bad guy to use minimum force? I don't, so I won't. I didn't start the fight, but I will finish it, and go home to my family, and I'll use whatever I need to do so. I can stand the court of public opinion, but I won't stand for my family being without me, if I can help it.
    The example I gave was for a more restrictive environment, such as Australia, and some insight in to the articulation as to why you used a flashlight as a baton. Sadly the more asinine jurisdictions are out there, and quite prevelant in my expirience. "The law is what the local prosecutor says it is."

    I think we can both agree that we will do what needs to be done to go home alive, as that is my only goal. The thing is, people do need to consider the court of public opinion, especially when out in public. If you will notice, I stated that I would not use the less than lethal when defending my home. My Use of Force Model in my home, is presence, verbal, lethal, and depending upon the circumstances I may go straight to lethal and fore-go the verbal.

    If you do the right thing, follow the law, and tell the truth, you'll probably be okay.
    Should be shouldn't even be a consideration for a homeowner in my opinion. There is a reason it's referred to as "defending the castle." My home is my castle, and will be defended as such. If badguys don't like that, they need a new line of work. I don't think we are that far apart in our views, but I do think that consideration and public perception has to factor in to our decisions, to a point. I would much rather use a benign flashlight as opposed to a baton. Often in court, perception becomes reality. Why look like a Bruce Lee want to be when you can appear as a harmless befuddled fuddy duddy?

    Biker

  5. #64
    Senior Member
    Array Blue Thunder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    In the Gun Room
    Posts
    926
    I have an ASP in the drivers side door carry pouch of my car. If things get worse than that, I have some really good Pepper Spray and at the end of the fight is my G-19 with two reloads for a total of 46 rounds of Cor-Bon Ammo. At 62 years old, things may get pumped up very early depending on the threat. I'm not taking any prisoners.
    Praise the Lord my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle --- Psalm 144
    NRA Endowment Life
    There are NO Silver Medals for Street Combat
    Blue Thunder

  6. #65
    Member Array motorsporting's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    21
    Here is WA State Law on it, but I need some help interpreting. Does it mean that it is only illegal if you intimidate someone with it? In other words, it's ok to carry, and it's ok to use when threatened with bodily harm/protecting someone? I hope so, 'cause I have one I carry when walking the dog. I have a CCW, but I can't use my pistol unless my life is in danger. A charging dog might not warrant such use, so a baton seems like a good option. I know pepper spray would probably work too, but the baton seems more pertinent?

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.270

    RCW 9.41.270
    Weapons apparently capable of producing bodily harm Unlawful carrying or handling Penalty Exceptions.

    (1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.

    (2) Any person violating the provisions of subsection (1) above shall be guilty of a gross misdemeanor. If any person is convicted of a violation of subsection (1) of this section, the person shall lose his or her concealed pistol license, if any. The court shall send notice of the revocation to the department of licensing, and the city, town, or county which issued the license.

    (3) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply to or affect the following:

    (a) Any act committed by a person while in his or her place of abode or fixed place of business;

    (b) Any person who by virtue of his or her office or public employment is vested by law with a duty to preserve public safety, maintain public order, or to make arrests for offenses, while in the performance of such duty;

    (c) Any person acting for the purpose of protecting himself or herself against the use of presently threatened unlawful force by another, or for the purpose of protecting another against the use of such unlawful force by a third person;

    (d) Any person making or assisting in making a lawful arrest for the commission of a felony; or

    (e) Any person engaged in military activities sponsored by the federal or state governments.

  7. #66
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    5,272
    It would appear to me that 9.41.270 (1) could be used to prohibit the open carry of an expandable baton. In addition, 9.41.250 (1), (b) appears to prohibit the concealed carry of an expandable baton (dangerous weapon). That's just my take on it and INAL.
    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.250





    RCW 9.41.250
    Dangerous weapons — Penalty — Exemption for law enforcement officers.

    (1) Every person who:

    (a) Manufactures, sells, or disposes of or possesses any instrument or weapon of the kind usually known as slung shot, sand club, or metal knuckles, or spring blade knife, or any knife the blade of which is automatically released by a spring mechanism or other mechanical device, or any knife having a blade which opens, or falls, or is ejected into position by the force of gravity, or by an outward, downward, or centrifugal thrust or movement;

    (b) Furtively carries with intent to conceal any dagger, dirk, pistol, or other dangerous weapon; or

    (c) Uses any contrivance or device for suppressing the noise of any firearm,

    is guilty of a gross misdemeanor punishable under chapter 9A.20 RCW.

    (2) Subsection (1)(a) of this section does not apply to:

    (a) The possession of a spring blade knife by a law enforcement officer while the officer:

    (i) Is on official duty; or

    (ii) Is transporting the knife to or from the place where the knife is stored when the officer is not on official duty; or

    (b) The storage of a spring blade knife by a law enforcement officer.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  8. #67
    Senior Member Array dunndw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Nashville
    Posts
    1,123
    I believe in Tennessee you can't carry one, but you can get certified to carry one, and that is a defense to carrying one illegally..some such nonsense just came of of the AGs office. I just completed armed private security classes, and I'm signed up to take baton, handcuffing and taser. I walked into a local cop shop, went to the rack, picked up a baton, paid for it and left. They know me however NOT to be a wanna be cop or a thug.
    "If I was an extremist, our founding fathers would all be extremists," he said. "Without them, we wouldn't have our independence. We'd be a disarmed British system of feudal subjectivity."

  9. #68
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    5,272
    One of the advantages of living in a state that issues a CWP/L rather than a CPP/L.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  10. #69
    Ex Member Array JOHNSMITH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    somewhere
    Posts
    1,726
    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    One of the advantages of living in a state that issues a CWP/L rather than a CPP/L.
    Amen to that.

  11. #70
    Member Array spwz99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    58
    I just sent the following email to the Missouri Attorney General's office. We'll see if I get a response that isn't a "Thank you for your concern" form letter.

    Dear Sir or Madam of the Attorney General's Office,

    I have a question regarding the scope of self defense weapons, in addition to a firearm, a valid Missouri concealed carry endorsement holder may carry under current Missouri state law.


    Section 571.030.1 - Unlawful Use of Weapons--Exceptions--Penalties, subsection (1) of Missouri's Revised statutes reads:

    "571.030. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly: (1) Carries concealed upon or about his or her person a knife, a firearm, a blackjack or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use; or..."


    571.030.4 states:



    "4. Subdivisions (1), (8), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section shall not apply to any person who has a valid concealed carry endorsement issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 or a valid permit or endorsement to carry concealed firearms issued by another state or political subdivision of another state."


    and, 571.010.2 defines a blackjack as:


    "(2) "Blackjack", any instrument that is designed or adapted for the purpose of stunning or inflicting physical injury by striking a person, and which is readily capable of lethal use."


    With the preceding information in mind, would I be correct in inferring that an item such as an ASP expandable baton would be classified as a "Blackjack" and as such, a person with a valid concealed carry endorsement would be legally allowed to carry one for self defense purposes?


    Thank you for your time and consideration.


    Sincerely,

  12. #71
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    2,618
    Quote Originally Posted by KralBlbec View Post
    I just did a a search and was surprised to see that there has never been a discussion about batons here.

    I'm looking to get a good baton, not for edc but just for in the house. Under the bed type stuff. Any brands that stand out in particular? I couldnt find any mention of them as a "dangerous weapon" in the WA RCW but I didnt do a very thorough search. It doesnt look like there are any state restrictions.

    Really i'm just wondering about any 2 cents people might have to throw in the pot.
    WA RCW are vague and attach intent to what is defined as a weapon. It is difficult to explain an ASP or other telescoping baton as anything other than a weapon. I used to carry one in the car. Sometimes still do on the bike but a cane is a much more effective weapon, hidden in plain sight that you can take anywhere weapons are prohibited. Also a fish club is a nice handy tool to have in the ca. Be sure to have some tackle in the car as well. Should you ever need to explain the fish club.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst 12345

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Collapsible Stock Position?
    By TattooedGunner in forum Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: December 7th, 2008, 09:29 AM
  2. Tazers and batons
    By Wiggy in forum Defensive Knives & Other Weapons
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: August 24th, 2007, 01:15 PM
  3. Colt AR15 .223 cal /20 rnd mag / collapsible stock
    By dls56 in forum Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: July 8th, 2007, 11:56 AM
  4. New Batons
    By Lew in forum Defensive Knives & Other Weapons
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: October 15th, 2006, 08:37 AM
  5. Expandable Batons
    By ninpo in forum Defensive Knives & Other Weapons
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: February 23rd, 2006, 12:52 PM

Search tags for this page

are batons illegal
,

are collapsible batons illegal

,

are collapsible batons legal

,
are collapsible batons legal in missouri
,
are collapsible batons legal in texas
,
are retractable batons legal
,
are retractable batons legal in texas
,
collapsible baton illegal
,

collapsible baton laws

,

collapsible baton legality

,
is it legal to carry a collapsible baton
,
retractable baton legality
Click on a term to search for related topics.