Just another idea/option...maybe

Just another idea/option...maybe

This is a discussion on Just another idea/option...maybe within the Defensive Knives & Other Weapons forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I've seen a lot of threads lately that ask the question, "What can I carry into/around/on fill-in-the-blank and still be legal but not vulnerable?" One ...

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Thread: Just another idea/option...maybe

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array EvilMonk's Avatar
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    Just another idea/option...maybe

    I've seen a lot of threads lately that ask the question, "What can I carry into/around/on fill-in-the-blank and still be legal but not vulnerable?"

    One thread had a reference to the OP's school regulations that stated specifically any edged item not used for food preparation was "verboten".

    So...

    While I was in chef school (see where this is going?), I was issued a set of knives made by R. H. Forschner. I soon remembered where most Martial Arts weapons came from: They had originally been tools of farmers who had had their legitimate weapons banned by the Japanese Tokugawa Shogunate around the end of the Warring States period. Tonfas were threshers, Kamas were scythes, Nunchaku were also used to thresh, Bo staffs were used by almost everyone as walking staffs and boat oars, etc. I began to think of different trade professions that would yield some rather vicious "Found Weaponry".

    We are surrounded by tools that could very easily become wicked-sick weapons of mass agony and discontent. Hammers, screwdrivers, crowbars, box cutters, heck, even the items they are intended to be used on could be used in a defensive role. A pipe of sufficient length could act as an escrima stick, or even a short staff should the need arise.

    I used to carry my knife-roll (a kind of roll-out bag used by cooks and chefs to carry their knives) in my weak side hand. I'd wrap my chef knife in a towel and place it in the middle of the roll with the handle somewhat sticking out for easy access. No one ever stopped me, and I never had an issue with the Police even though I was literally carrying a 10" fixed blade knife that is specifically designed to slice flesh with an artistically smooth cut!

    I was essentially walking around like some samurai with his scabbard in hand and ready for whatever silliness the nearest legally-challenged moron might try to inflict on me.

    I'm not suggesting that anyone carry a whole knife-roll on them, that's just not cost effective or practical. I am suggesting however that one chef knife (specifically purposed for food preparation!) rolled in a towel (bacon print!) tucked into a bag, purse, or other school/city stuff-carrier could fit the bill. If anyone asks, you cook as a hobby, and you need it for a fill-in-the-blank. It might help if you actually know a few things about cooking and throw some jargon out there as well, or show enthusiasm for this great new dish you can't wait to try out (like criminal cassarole).

    Keep in mind too that not all cooking knives have to be big or even evil-looking. Many slicers (do not even think about what those would do to someone...) have rounded tips to prevent accidental pokes and sticks in the bread or meat that would ruin the appearance of the presented food. One of those would be a slash only type weapon, but I assure you...

    ...you would only need one slash.

    I for one would never attack a chef. For one thing, most of them are scat-flinging crazy, and for another, they might very well have this tucked into their apron:



    It might work for some and it might not for others. Just a thought...

    Last edited by EvilMonk; November 27th, 2010 at 07:56 AM.
    That which does not kill us leaves us broken and bleeding...

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    VIP Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    There's a lot of wisdom and insight in this post.

    Actually, 2 or 3 times a year, as a fun activity in my martial arts class we have "improvised weapon day," where you bring a few things that you might have in hand - umbrella, squeegee, tennis racket - and work with them. If you have to react to a situation with force, you can bring your hands and feet to the game instantly. If you're holding something in your hand, a pen, a fork, a coffee cup, it's potentially a weapon that can concentrate your weight and power.

    Just like EvilMonk says, if there's some place that doesn't allow "weapons," you can certainly have a metal punch, or an awl, or pretty much anything from the toolbox or kitchen drawer. Classical Okinawan weapons are almost all farm tools and from nunchaku to tonfa, you owe it to yourself to have some familiarity and skill with them, not because you might find yourself with a pair of tonfa in hand when that bad incident in the convenience store goes down, but because you want the feel of how to improvise weapons to be as natural a part of yourself as breathing.
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    hammer2213 likes this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    That was good
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    VIP Member Array tkruf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    I like this idea best.
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    While improvised weapons use is a good idea when nothing else is available, you best have a reasonable and believable reason to carrying cooking knives, ect. (i.e. going to -from a cooking class ). Claiming you are a chef ( even an amateur) most likely will not get you out of a ride downtown on a weapons charge if you are found in possession.
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    I like the clip. Where do you find all these links? Keep them coming I enjoy your posts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilMonk View Post
    ...I for one would never attack a chef. For one thing, most of them are scat-flinging crazy...
    LOL. Good post, and accurate comment. I've known a few chefs and they've all been an interesting combination of being ultra-creative, and uber-controlling... the basic ingredients for a super-villain.
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Array EvilMonk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocky View Post
    While improvised weapons use is a good idea when nothing else is available, you best have a reasonable and believable reason to carrying cooking knives, ect. (i.e. going to -from a cooking class ). Claiming you are a chef ( even an amateur) most likely will not get you out of a ride downtown on a weapons charge if you are found in possession.
    I beg to differ. I would love to see a chef or cook get picked up for carrying his tools out to his car or even on the walk home. That would be an ignorant LEO who would get laughed out of a courtroom and scolded behind closed doors. The cooks at my hotel do it all the time (as did I for 10 years with a 3 mile walk to and from) and they have never had a problem in my very knife-unfriendly city.

    Many laws have exceptions in them that state that professional tools, work implements, etc, are allowed. A chef knife might be pushing it, but it would indeed qualify as a tool-of-a-trade. Walking back from a friend's house (to make them dinner) and saying, "I've seen his knives, I brought my own" wouldn't be unreasonable. The burden of proof is on the LEO to prove you are not a cook, amateur or otherwise (heck, you could even be lousy, it doesn't matter in America, now does it?), and you really don't have to answer anything they ask you. Sorry to all the LEOs here on this site, and I mean no offense, but that is the Constitutional Law of the Land. Since 90% of what gets people into legal trouble comes out of their mouth and not their pockets, bags, or clothes, stick with a plausible story and that's it.

    My point is simply that almost everyone has some kind of professional tool that could be ridiculously effective for Self Defense. Even office jockeys have staplers, pens, and especially scissors. Instead of buying the new SlaughterCo brand "Eviscerator" 18" fixed blade with built in bone saw and blood siphon, why not just get an 8" chef knife (almost certainly cheaper anyhoo) and carry that in your bag? If the LEOs are searching your bag, you probably have bigger things to worry about anyway...

    Again, this is not an absolute "You Must Do This", it's just a new avenue of approach to a difficult question.

    P.S. My wife is tiny and weighs less than most mammals of the Rodentia Family when soaking wet. She carries about 3 knives on her constantly and has even been seen with them by the Police. Only once did anyone (LEO) question her, and she just replied, "Do I look like I am a physical powerhouse?" No further issues after that...
    Last edited by EvilMonk; November 27th, 2010 at 07:02 PM. Reason: Edited for content (I was pressed for time earlier...)
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocky View Post
    While improvised weapons use is a good idea when nothing else is available, you best have a reasonable and believable reason to carrying cooking knives, ect. (i.e. going to -from a cooking class ). Claiming you are a chef ( even an amateur) most likely will not get you out of a ride downtown on a weapons charge if you are found in possession.
    You have a very good point. I believe Monk was also pointing out looking for a tool which is part of your particular trade or occupation in which you can use as an improvised weapon.

    For example, when I go to the Post Office, I carry a defibrillator. It's my own personal tazer. Okay, just kidding, but I know of more than one paramedic who grabbed the paddles and charged them when a patient started feeling a little froggy. These days most defibrillators don't have the paddles attached anymore. They use adhesive pads with skinny wires and grabbing a set of sticky pads is not nearly as intimidated as grabbing those old steel paddles in each hand with the thick coiled power cord as the sound of them energizing ramped up in the background.
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    Senior Member Array psychophipps's Avatar
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    Most chef knives make lousy weapons (please note the qualifier). Round handles that twist in your grip and flexible blades that would bend on the thrust that hits anything hard. They're great when the naked item being cut is on a flat, supported surface but you'd have to get a pretty high-end knife to get one with the stiffness in the blade you'd want on a combat knife to cut and poke things wearing clothing and are moving around.

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    Well thought out,and i will add 1 thing you missed: Hot dog/marshmallow prongs.They are longer than a knife,and no one would question that.Just stick something on the end and eat it.Light,and good for stabbing and blocking.

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    Logging is pretty common here, so sometimes I carry an axe or even a chainsaw when I need to leave the pistol behind. If asked, I just tell people that I'm an amateur logger. ;)

    In all seriousness though, lots of things can be used and it is always wise to be thinking about alternatives. Example: take a cane on an airplane, carry a quality (if not tactical) pen, rolled up magazine or newspaper, flashlight, a rock, can of soup, etc...
    Even your PHONE can be a weapon:
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