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Is the Spyderco Civilian right for me?

6K views 16 replies 11 participants last post by  Rob72 
#1 ·
Hi Guys,

I've noticed that a number of people own/carry or are familiar with this knife. I was wondering if it should become my new carry knife.


Per Syderco, this knife was designed for people with little training: why is this? Is it that this knive if simply made to slash which may require less skill than thrusts, etc?

Here's my situation, I like to carry a knife and OC when I carry my pistol. But more importantly, I have to walk about 1/2 mile each day to and from my car at work each day. This walk is through a very bad area of town. I'm not allowed to have a firearm at work. I'm looking for a new knife to keep me safe.

I have chronic back problems and I'm not planning on taking any martial arts classes anytime soon, so I'm looking for a user/novice friendly knife that is easy to operate.

Any feedback would be much appreciated.
 
#2 ·
Well, I can certainly understand why you would want a knife with you if you have to leave your gun behind. However, I am of the opinion that an untrained person should not carry a knife for a weapon, any more than an untrained person should carry a gun. Sorry for the bad news.
 
#3 ·
Beprepared said:
However, I am of the opinion that an untrained person should not carry a knife for a weapon, any more than an untrained person should carry a gun. Sorry for the bad news.
I can see that viewpoint, but on the other point, I don't think simple self defense with a knife is as much rocket science as some people would like to think. And, UNLIKE a pistol, I don't think there is as much potential for hurting innocent people. Being an expert with a blade will surely help in a fight, but in terms of being mugged by some dirtbag, I think the average person (even without offical training) fairs better with a knife versus nothing.


You aren't one of those people who think you take a 4 day cert class to carry mace, right? *wink*
 
#4 ·
The design of the Civilian with the reverse "S" shaped bkade is nit for thrusting, it is for slashing at the extremeties and neck. In my views the knife is a defense only weapon, it should be used to keep your attacker away. If both of you and your attacker have knives, escape and evade. There have been several other post regarding this knife where I have prviouly stated that the first rule of a knife fight is that YOU WILL BE CUT.

Back to the design of the civilain the tip of the blade is designed to break off into bone/flesh mass and infilct more damage. Once again this is not a stabbing or thursting weapon, a series of diagonal slashes will be enough to slice your attacker to ribbons.

Also, check on your local laws CCW/CHL/CPL does not exactly cover blades, and the Civilian is considered illegal to carry in some states. However I can't think of one LEO that would bust you for a knife if your liscensed to carry a firearm.
 
#5 ·
I have the Civilian, and it's appearance would probably change most attacker's minds; the presence of a knife could deter the problem. You might not have to use it, and if you do, the Civilian is a great cutter.
 
#8 ·
You should still understand the basics of defense with a knife, slashing angles, how to use it to your advantage properly and not just rely on the "I'll slash with it and survive" mentality.

Re: slashing, it is very good at that once laid on the body. If you really want to learn how to use it for your best defense, contact Jim Keating company "ComTech" who has a video out on the specific use of the Civilian.

Brownie
 
#9 ·
AzQkr said:
You should still understand the basics of defense with a knife, slashing angles, how to use it to your advantage properly and not just rely on the "I'll slash with it and survive" mentality.

Re: slashing, it is very good at that once laid on the body. If you really want to learn how to use it for your best defense, contact Jim Keating company "ComTech" who has a video out on the specific use of the Civilian.

Brownie

Will do thanks.
 
#10 ·
swiftyjuan said:
I have the Civilian, and it's appearance would probably change most attacker's minds; You might not have to use it, and if you do, the Civilian is a great cutter.
no doubt ! thats one scary knife...
 
#11 ·
It is one scary knife. I carry mine when I am not able to carry my gun. It is only a defense weapon. It is not a utility knife. If you find that you have to use your knife for utility purposes as well, another knife may be better, or just carry a small swiss army knife for utility. I think with a little practice and some reading it is a good defensive weapon
 
#12 ·
Dingle1911 said:
It is one scary knife. I carry mine when I am not able to carry my gun. It is only a defense weapon. It is not a utility knife. If you find that you have to use your knife for utility purposes as well, another knife may be better, or just carry a small swiss army knife for utility. I think with a little practice and some reading it is a good defensive weapon
The first time I used the knife was at a wreck. Another guy got there before me, and the car was upside down with a really drunk driver hanging from his seatbelt. As I approached, the other guy said "you got a knife?" I handed him the Civilian, and he cut through the seat belt like butter. The driver was unhurt. When the guy handed me the knife back, he said "When you opened that thing, I almost ran! But it sure works good!"
 
#13 ·
Mass-Diver said:
I can see that viewpoint, but on the other point, I don't think simple self defense with a knife is as much rocket science as some people would like to think. And, UNLIKE a pistol, I don't think there is as much potential for hurting innocent people. Being an expert with a blade will surely help in a fight, but in terms of being mugged by some dirtbag, I think the average person (even without offical training) fairs better with a knife versus nothing.


You aren't one of those people who think you take a 4 day cert class to carry mace, right? *wink*
Haha...

I can see your point too. You are right that a person does not need any training to be dangerous with a knife. I certainly wouldn't want to get close to anyone yielding a knife, trained or not. So, I will concede on this point.
 
#14 ·
Friends,

Those of you who have greater experience in these things may disagree, but I'm kind of thinking that a knife in the hands of an expert can be a good thing, but no novice should use consider using a knife defensively.

Most men, without training, grip the knive and proceed to "box", pausing after every "punch" to evaluate the effect. Oftentimes (we use hard plastic training knives, so there's enough of a booboo that nobody really wants to get struck) the novice is quickly disarmed ... sometimes by other novices. When you consider that the orc approching you is probably not coming to his first rodeo, it's enough to make one rethink the problem.

I usually just recommend pepper spray to folks that need a defensive tool but haven't the time to properly train.

Cordially,
Gary Crumrine
 
#15 ·
Gary,

I have to disagree. Should a person seek training in order to be able to use their knife more effectively? Absolutely. Is training a prerequisite to using a knife effectively? No.

Gary Crumrine said:
Most men, without training, grip the knive and proceed to "box", pausing after every "punch" to evaluate the effect.
That certainly has not been my experience but let us assume this is the case. A good, solid "punch" to the chest with a knife is going to beat spraying someone in the face with pepper spray every day of the week.
Gary Crumrine said:
Oftentimes (we use hard plastic training knives, so there's enough of a booboo that nobody really wants to get struck) the novice is quickly disarmed ... sometimes by other novices.
I still have the scar from when I disarmed a "novice." Incidentally, that pivotal event ended much of my infatuation with the martial arts and signalled the start of my serious interest in firearms.:wink:
Gary Crumrine said:
When you consider that the orc approching you is probably not coming to his first rodeo, it's enough to make one rethink the problem.
This is a valid point. In my experience, anyone who has been around the block more than once has a healthy respect for a knife and what it can do.
Gary Crumrine said:
I usually just recommend pepper spray to folks that need a defensive tool but haven't the time to properly train.
I am not really a proponent of pepper spray. I have not found it to be quite as debilitating as many people believe and some people are unaffected by it. You need to have a plan in case it does not work.

That said, it does have its place. Knives, guns and pepper spray all have different roles though some of these roles overlap. For example, it is difficult to effect an escape from a choke using a gun or pepper spray but it is relatively easy to do so with a knife. Likewise, it is difficult to respond in kind when you are attacked with deadly force if you are only equipped with pepper spray.
 
#16 · (Edited)
It's been my experience in the training of LE and civilian in defensive knife skills that one doesn't really need training in how to use the knife offensively against another as much as one needs training in how to defend against the knife attack, both empty handed and with his own knife if he can get to it.

In the training arena, if the student [ or perp on the street ] doesn't know your [ the defenders ] ability and training they make mistakes, get too close, use classic slashing, overhands, and sometimes stabbing attempts.

Once the student [ or perp on the street ] knows the defender [ the instrictor or anotehr student ] has some knowledge of what is happening they become guarded, more reserved, and less apt or willing to make mistakes that can be used to the defenders advantage.

Then the fight is on for sure.

On the street, perps will be confident in their ability to use a weapon [ in this case the knife ] to intimidate the defender unless it is an all out murder with no underlying motive like robbery, abduction or some other scenario.

That confidence on the perps part can be used to the defenders advantage. How the defender "appears" to be in fear, how the defender acts physically can be used to an advantage in these situations.

How I would use a folder like the Civilian will be somewhat different than another who doesn't have training in defensvie tactics with a blade, of course.

In my own case, I understand the weapons strengths and weaknesses. No different than knowing the strenghts and weaknesses of a knife designed like the Kerambit.

If the knife has a very fine point, I would not attack hard targets with stabbing blows perhaps, if the knife doesn't have a fine thin edge, I may not want to use it on heavy clothing, but go for exposed skin like the wrists, neck, etc.;

If it has a serrated edge, I certainly do not want to use it against some materials as the blade can likely be slowed down enough to not allow a cut deep enough. Certain designs of serrations are poor at best in this regard. Not all serrated edges are equal in their cutting ability.

Brownie
 
#17 ·
jdlv4_0 said:
Back to the design of the civilain the tip of the blade is designed to break off into bone/flesh mass and infilct more damage.
No. Mass, you might want to check in over at www.totalprotectioninteractive.com and search the Civilian there. Sal (Spyderco's owner) checks in regularly.

One other observation I would have is that if you already have limited mobility, you might want to check out the new waved Spydies, or a Disciple/Clinch Pick



If you can carry one, fixed will always be faster than folder, and a "wave" draw faster than thumbing. Having said that, if you practice getting it out, the Civvie is a formidable weapon. Essentially, think of boxing, but putting your fist's POI about 3-4" above the target, so that you "hit" with the blade.:gah:
 
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