Who knows about Saps?

This is a discussion on Who knows about Saps? within the Defensive Knives & Other Weapons forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; In Iowa, the permit to carry is a permit to carry weapons and Saps etc. are able to be carried. I've often though I might ...

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 21
Like Tree9Likes

Thread: Who knows about Saps?

  1. #1
    JD [OP]
    JD is offline
    Administrator
    Array JD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Central Iowa
    Posts
    19,234

    Who knows about Saps?

    In Iowa, the permit to carry is a permit to carry weapons and Saps etc. are able to be carried.

    I've often though I might like to have something a little less obvious than an ASP etc. and a nice flat sap might not be a bad thing to keep in the leg pocket of my pants.

    So...where can I find a good sap and what are good/bad things to look for in one?

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    5,272
    I guess I would qualify on that, having used saps, sap gloves and BJs for quite a number of years.

    Saps.
    Generally flat, sometimes rounded, generally filled with powered lead or shot. Some have a flat spring in the handle, others just multiple layers of leather. I prefer no spring. The flex in the leather over time provides better whip than a spring. Whip is important as sap strikes are usually short whippy strikes. I have seen them from around 4-5oz up to around 24oz, which is my large sap.

    The flat ones carry easier in a pocket. They can be used either flat or on edge. The flat is good for nerve points, joints and head strikes. Turned on edge they can break bones. The round ones are generally heavier, somewhat more versatile and strike with more authority in short strikes.

    Some knowledge and training is prudent with saps. They can be considered either lethal or non lethal depending on the areas targeted.

    BJs.
    The primary difference between saps and BJs is that BJs generally have a solid piece of lead or other metal inside as opposed to the powder/shot in saps and nearly always have a spring in the handle. These are dangerous weapons and require expertise in their use to avoid lethal results.

    Sap Gloves.
    Leather gloves generally filled with 6-8 oz of powdered lead in each glove. Most have the filling in the knuckle area, but some have it in the palm. Weather and activity appropriate to their wear makes them a very subtle tool and nearly if not quite as effective as saps. All of these devices are "in close" tools with their level of use dependent on the level of the threat. The primary difference is that saps/BJs are used as a striking device, where as the gloves protect the hands and augment the striking ability of the hands in slaps and punches. In addition to wear the use of gloves is less obvious to others than saps or BJs. I personally prefer the "gloves".

    In addition to LE equipment stores, there are a number of private makers on various SD forums.

    Here are some of mine.
    Attached Images
    Stubborn, JD, jwhite75 and 1 others like this.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  4. #3
    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Florida Treasure Coast
    Posts
    3,211
    I prefered the SAP on the far left of Guantes photo after having used a braided handle black jack like the one second from left on an individual and not getting the desired results as quickly as needed requiring a strike to the head area to end an attempt gun grab of another officers weapon. We had a pocket on the side of the right leg of our uniform pants made to hold the SAP or BJ and it was a great impact weapon when used properly. I liked the "Texan" because of it's size. The use of the flat side of the SAP was the best area to strike with but some used the edge side in certain areas of the body and it had a tendency to really cause nasty lacerations. I was never allowed to use SAP gloves by department policy because we were told it might prompt our officers to get into a "fist fight" with the BG.


    http://www.weapons-universe.com/Pers...ly_Clubs.shtml
    JD likes this.
    "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".

    "A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves".

    http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/

  5. #4
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    5,272
    Here is a good treatise on the subject.
    Blackjacks and Saps
    JD likes this.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  6. #5
    Ex Member Array William Hill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    129
    I've got a skull-embossed finger sap on order from here, just scroll down to see it:

    d3 protection
    JD likes this.

  7. #6
    JD [OP]
    JD is offline
    Administrator
    Array JD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Central Iowa
    Posts
    19,234
    Quote Originally Posted by William Hill View Post
    I've got a skull-embossed finger sap on order from here, just scroll down to see it:

    d3 protection
    Ahhh, that's the link I was looking for. I remember the finger saps, I think something like this is what I'm looking for.



    Guantes / OS, thanks for the input. I used to practice with impact weapons a lot prior to carrying a firearm, I'll probably be taking it back up again and make sure I can wield whatever "weapon" I have on hand effectively.

  8. #7
    JD [OP]
    JD is offline
    Administrator
    Array JD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Central Iowa
    Posts
    19,234
    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    Here is a good treatise on the subject.
    Blackjacks and Saps
    Thanks for the read.

  9. #8
    Ex Member Array William Hill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    129
    It's a shame I can't carry any of the saps or jacks I own. I can keep them as part of a collection in PA, like switchblades, but carrying them is a no-no.

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array shockwave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    2,038
    In this category of weapon, you might consider the Sap Cap.

    There's a brief essay on the use of this kind of weapon here.

    If you are in an escalating situation, reaching up to pinch the bill of your cap isn't a very threatening move, but once you have a good hold on that brim, you're in position to deliver a devastating sap-blow to the target of your choice. Surprise, surprise.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

  11. #10
    JD [OP]
    JD is offline
    Administrator
    Array JD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Central Iowa
    Posts
    19,234
    Quote Originally Posted by shockwave View Post
    In this category of weapon, you might consider the Sap Cap.

    There's a brief essay on the use of this kind of weapon here.

    If you are in an escalating situation, reaching up to pinch the bill of your cap isn't a very threatening move, but once you have a good hold on that brim, you're in position to deliver a devastating sap-blow to the target of your choice. Surprise, surprise.
    Interesting and a noteworthy concept, but not quite what I'm looking for as my choice in head wear where I want to carry the SAP is limited.

  12. #11
    Senior Member Array psychophipps's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Texas, in the RGV
    Posts
    747
    Not super knowledgeable about saps other than the fact that they tend to be illegal in many jurisdictions. Check your local laws and the laws of places you visit before you get too comfy carrying one all of the time.

  13. #12
    JD [OP]
    JD is offline
    Administrator
    Array JD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Central Iowa
    Posts
    19,234
    Quote Originally Posted by psychophipps View Post
    Not super knowledgeable about saps other than the fact that they tend to be illegal in many jurisdictions. Check your local laws and the laws of places you visit before you get too comfy carrying one all of the time.
    Please re-read the first sentence of my first post. While I did not go into much detail as to the intent of this tool, it is not my intent to take it out of this state for the purpose of carry.

  14. #13
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    texas
    Posts
    15,179
    I have a friend and his Dad was the COP in a town close to the Mexico border,there were lots of bar fights,and what his Dad didn't have in size the Sap he carried made up the difference,kinda like a little Hispanic Tornado
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  15. #14
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    5,272
    The psychological impact of the sap was many times as great or greater than its physical impact. It could immediately calm situations when you took it out. People knew what it could do and mostly, they wanted NO part of it.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  16. #15
    VIP Member Array jwhite75's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    West Virginia
    Posts
    5,319
    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    I guess I would qualify on that, having used saps, sap gloves and BJs for quite a number of years.

    Saps.
    Generally flat, sometimes rounded, generally filled with powered lead or shot. Some have a flat spring in the handle, others just multiple layers of leather. I prefer no spring. The flex in the leather over time provides better whip than a spring. Whip is important as sap strikes are usually short whippy strikes. I have seen them from around 4-5oz up to around 24oz, which is my large sap.

    The flat ones carry easier in a pocket. They can be used either flat or on edge. The flat is good for nerve points, joints and head strikes. Turned on edge they can break bones. The round ones are generally heavier, somewhat more versatile and strike with more authority in short strikes.

    Some knowledge and training is prudent with saps. They can be considered either lethal or non lethal depending on the areas targeted.

    BJs.
    The primary difference between saps and BJs is that BJs generally have a solid piece of lead or other metal inside as opposed to the powder/shot in saps and nearly always have a spring in the handle. These are dangerous weapons and require expertise in their use to avoid lethal results.

    Sap Gloves.
    Leather gloves generally filled with 6-8 oz of powdered lead in each glove. Most have the filling in the knuckle area, but some have it in the palm. Weather and activity appropriate to their wear makes them a very subtle tool and nearly if not quite as effective as saps. All of these devices are "in close" tools with their level of use dependent on the level of the threat. The primary difference is that saps/BJs are used as a striking device, where as the gloves protect the hands and augment the striking ability of the hands in slaps and punches. In addition to wear the use of gloves is less obvious to others than saps or BJs. I personally prefer the "gloves".

    In addition to LE equipment stores, there are a number of private makers on various SD forums.

    Here are some of mine.
    I think Guantes gives you the best advice here. I was lucky enough to work with several officers from the older generation who were experienced in these weapons. Guantes is dead on from about everything i saw and heard.
    Friends don't let friends be MALL NINJAS.


    I am just as nice as anyone lets me be and can be just as mean as anyone makes me. - Quoted from Terryger, New member to our forum.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

are sap gloves legal in pennsylvania
,
are sap gloves legal in texas
,
are saps illegal in texas
,

are saps legal

,

are saps legal in illinois

,

are saps legal in texas

,

blackjack weapon

,

d3 saps blackjacks

,
how to use a blackjack weapon
,

how to use a sap weapon

,
impact weapons
,

saps weapons

Click on a term to search for related topics.