pepper spray! Wow!

This is a discussion on pepper spray! Wow! within the Defensive Knives & Other Weapons forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Always carried Spitfire......it is very potent stuff....but the company may have closed.....anyone have any info. ?...

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Thread: pepper spray! Wow!

  1. #61
    VIP Member Array xXxplosive's Avatar
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    Always carried Spitfire......it is very potent stuff....but the company may have closed.....anyone have any info. ?

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  3. #62
    Member Array BigE410's Avatar
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    I prefer the kind of spray that has OC and CS in it. CS is the stuff that makes you gag and spit and have your nose run all over the place. I got myself with Sabre Red as I wanted to know what to expect if I ever had to use it. I can tell you it works. On top of the very bad burn the OC was giving me I was coughing, sneezing, gagging and snot was just pouring outta me haha. Lasts for a long time to.

    Word to the wise for anyone that plans on getting themself. Get Sudocon wipes to clean yourself up after yoru done. Water makes it much much worse everytimes Ive done it (Ive done it a few hah) Sudocon works in about 5 min and you feel 90% at least
    I dont believe in fate, I believe in odds.

  4. #63
    Distinguished Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
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    My understanding is that agents such as the original Mace, CS, and CN are irritants (CS has a vomiting agent added). One can be desensitized to an irritant over a period of time. OC is an inflammatory agent which causes the tissues to burn and the lung tissues to swell causing the choking and difficulty in breathing feeling. One cannot, per my training, develop a resistance to OC as one can with CN. However, it doesn't work on about 80-85% of people. I was taught using a stream type cannister to target the upper chest area and walk the spray up into the face. The OC residue on the chest area generates fumes which will then be inhaled by the assailant. (Watch out for cross-contamination when using this technique.) It seems to me either the fog or the stream cannisters would be the best. The fog spray would facilitate inhalation as well as getting it in the eyes. The downside is blow-back; it only takes the tiniest of sprays to cause coughing, and if used indoors will quickly take over the room (just ask my mother). The stream style generates far less blow-back and is more target-able which also means it is easier to miss with.

    Here is one last thought. I have seen it advised to spray left to right across the eyes This may be good for law enforcement who are worried about the possible asthmatic dying in their custody, but it is a less-than-optimal technique. Here is why. It is possible to fight through pain, such as one experiences with pepper spray in the eyes. Go back and review the video of the female Marine; she is sprayed only in the eyes! It is next to impossible to fight when one is struggling to breath as is experienced when pepper spray is inhaled. For this reason, I target the mouth and nose first and then the eyes.

    Find out what the LEOs in your area use and get that if legal.

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  5. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoganbeg View Post
    My understanding is that agents such as the original Mace, CS, and CN are irritants
    yes they are,
    and on a side note: tear gas is actually not a gas, its a solid at room temperature....just tiny particulate smoke, not a gas

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoganbeg View Post
    (CS has a vomiting agent added).
    this is not correct, CS is commonly referred to as tear gas and does not have any vomiting agent added, however if someone is contacted with a super concentrated amount, it can cause vomitting

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoganbeg View Post
    One can be desensitized to an irritant over a period of time.
    absolutely

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoganbeg View Post
    OC is an inflammatory agent which causes the tissues to burn and the lung tissues to swell causing the choking and difficulty in breathing feeling. One cannot, per my training, develop a resistance to OC as one can with CN.
    lung tissues don't necessarily swell always, this is dependent on how the individual is affected by OC, we are all different and all react differently, when I was sprayed in the academy my lungs/throat didn't swell and I didn't cough hardly any....but my eyes slammed shut and face/neck burned like a sunburn, couldn't open eyes for a LONG time

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoganbeg View Post
    However, it doesn't work on about 80-85% of people.
    this is absolutely incorrect, there is a small percentage of people that OC spray will not affect, if your figure was accurate then LE agencies/security/military would not be using it since it wouldn't be a viable option

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoganbeg View Post
    I was taught using a stream type cannister to target the upper chest area and walk the spray up into the face. The OC residue on the chest area generates fumes which will then be inhaled by the assailant. (Watch out for cross-contamination when using this technique.) It seems to me either the fog or the stream cannisters would be the best. The fog spray would facilitate inhalation as well as getting it in the eyes. The downside is blow-back; it only takes the tiniest of sprays to cause coughing, and if used indoors will quickly take over the room (just ask my mother). The stream style generates far less blow-back and is more target-able which also means it is easier to miss with.
    correct and very good points

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoganbeg View Post
    Here is one last thought. I have seen it advised to spray left to right across the eyes This may be good for law enforcement who are worried about the possible asthmatic dying in their custody, but it is a less-than-optimal technique. Here is why. It is possible to fight through pain, such as one experiences with pepper spray in the eyes. Go back and review the video of the female Marine; she is sprayed only in the eyes! It is next to impossible to fight when one is struggling to breath as is experienced when pepper spray is inhaled. For this reason, I target the mouth and nose first and then the eyes.
    If we were worried about the possible asthmatic dying in our custody we wouldn't use pepper spray at all. This happens very rarely, and we are trained and required to give fresh air and observe the suspect to watch for medical problems. We are also trained to spray from chin to forehead and then side to side to ensure coverage of the mouth, nose, and eyes. Of course this is easier said/taught than applied in the field with a person that wants to fight you....you're lucky to get it sprayed wherever you can most of the time.

    I have to use OC on duty twice now, and both times was very effective at getting them to stop what they were doing (one drunk 6'8" 230lb resisting arrest after being cuffed and wouldn't get into the car, knee strikes/pressure point had zero effect; other was a female high on narcotics that had gouged my arms with her huge fingernails and kicked me twice, I had to punch her forearm to release her nails digging into me, she screamed bloody murder when I sprayed her and deficated herself while fighting me on the ground)
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    If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?

  6. #65
    Distinguished Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
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    64Zebra,

    Sorry, I meant to say it only works on 80-85% of people (does not work on 15-20%). You are quite right, it would be more trouble than it was worth were it the way I stated.

    Thanks for the clarification on the CS/CN business. It had been a long time since I received that training and I may have missed something at the time, being a hot-shot 22 year old.

  7. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoganbeg View Post
    64Zebra,

    Sorry, I meant to say it only works on 80-85% of people (does not work on 15-20%). You are quite right, it would be more trouble than it was worth were it the way I stated.

    Thanks for the clarification on the CS/CN business. It had been a long time since I received that training and I may have missed something at the time, being a hot-shot 22 year old.


    and I think the 15-20% figure might be a little high, the vast majority of the ones that are not affected by OC are drunk/high, and in some cases severely mentally unstable (had an ofc hear put the whole can on this mental guy and just blinked a couple of times and said you're gonna need more than that)
    LEO/CHL
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    Independence is declared; it must be maintained. Sam Houston-3/2/1836
    If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?

  8. #67
    Senior Member Array Bubbiesdad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    I've always heard of pepper spray, seen it used in the movies, always thought it was something for women to use on purse snatchers. I always had the impression that it was a pretty weak self-defense weapon. I figured it would be an experience similar to getting sand thrown in your eyes, etc. I figured it would hurt, and give you a few extra seconds to get away, but otherwise do little besides piss somebody off even more.

    However, I just got through watching 4 or 5 youtube videos demonstrating this stuff. These people can't see at all, can't open their eyes. THey are in severe pain, and it seems to get worse with every second that goes by. These people are totally incapacitated and, I dare say, might even be more effective than a shot from a gun at stopping somebody.

    I'm definitely going to buy some of this for me and my family.
    Be sure and take a class in using it. They just swabbed a small amount of Sabre, on our cheeks just under our eyes and it was pretty bad. You tube is one thing. Experience is another.
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  9. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanner View Post
    I am looking to buy christmas presents this year for the whole family of pepper spray.

    Last year it was tactical flashlights, this year pepper spray. After some a vicous dog attack and some weird moments I especially want to do this for the women in my family. My mother could have been seriously harmed if I wasnt around.

    Bottom line is though, I need to find something with a really good safety. I carry the palm defender from asp and although its fine for me, I think the safety is a little insufficent for those in the family who will likely be not as attentive as I am.

    It needs to be easily pocketable for the guys (think slacks) and the ladys will probably purse carry it. I feel overwhelmed with the choices and was hoping people could give me some first hand feedback and maybe some size comparisons.
    I have given the .68 oz Mk VI to all my family members who want it.

    My wife has that along with the 3 oz Mk III in the truck.

    I carry my keys on the ASP Street Defender.

    I also prefer the OC/CS formula.

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    Mk VI .68 oz and Mk III 3oz
    click image to enlarge....

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  10. #69
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    The only riot control agent that I am aware of that was a specific vomiting agent was DM.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  11. #70
    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    The only riot control agent that I am aware of that was a specific vomiting agent was DM.
    Is that a code for Rosie O'Donnell?

  12. #71
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Although not intended, some might interpret it that way.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  13. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC Bullseye View Post
    Is that a code for Rosie O'Donnell?
    wow....that's powerful stuff....just threw up a little in my mouth
    LEO/CHL
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    Independence is declared; it must be maintained. Sam Houston-3/2/1836
    If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?

  14. #73
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    haha< when i bought my gun the guy at the store asked if i carried mace....I said - why carry mace? I have a .40??

    His response was PRICELESS: Because you can't just shoot people for annoying you -- BUT -- you can mace just about anyone!!!

    He was half-joking, and then again he was 1/2 serious. He gave me a great example of being downtown with his wife after dinner and taking a nice stroll thru the city when a group of 3 or 4 12-14 year old punk kids starting "annoying" him. He said it clearly wasn't a situation where he needed to shoot 'em, but he had his mace in his hand just in case they got too close.

    That story always stuck with me...call me a pu**y but I was in a restaurant when someone accidentally discharged their mace, it cleared the entire place out instantly..it was brutal. I could not imagine what that would feel like in your face.

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