Good Knife Basics...

Good Knife Basics...

This is a discussion on Good Knife Basics... within the Defensive Knives & Other Weapons forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Here is a good article by Sammy Franco that covers some basic information for anyone that carries a blade for self defense. KNIFE FIGHTING TIPS ...

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  1. #1
    Ex Member Array BioGLoCK23's Avatar
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    Good Knife Basics...

    Here is a good article by Sammy Franco that covers some basic information for anyone that carries a blade for self defense.

    KNIFE FIGHTING TIPS
    by
    Sammy Franco

    Here are a few knife fighting tips and suggestions from Contemporary Fighting Arts that will improve your odds of survival when knife fighting in a self defense situation.

    KNIFE FIGHTING #1 BUY A GOOD BLADE. Here a few important points to consider when purchasing a knife for self-defense (specifically knife fighting) : (1) Make certain the knife fits comfortably in both your right and left hand; (2) Choose a fighting knife that is designed for both slashing as well as stabbing; (3) Avoid all knives with finger grooves as they will limit your grip when engaged in combat; (4) Choose a blade that is sharp and large enough to penetrate the criminal assailantís vital arteries and organs when knife fighting; (5) Choose a knife that is light enough for you to manipulate it easily and quickly when knife fighting; (6) Use either a lock blade or fixed blade made of high-carbon stainless steel.

    KNIFE FIGHTING #2 AVOID USING A SPRING BLADE. Avoid using spring blades (i.e. switchblades, stilettos) when knife fighting. They are inherently dangerous for the following reasons: (1) The internal spring can malfunction in a time of need; (2) The structural integrity of the knife is usually poor; (3) The hand grips are usually too thin and often slippery; (4) They look menacing and have a criminal stigma attached to them. Remember, if your knife fighting altercation is later taken to court, the jury will not look unfavorably at you even though you may have been justified in killing your adversary.

    KNIFE FIGHTING #3 SELECT THE APPROPRIATE KNIFE GRIP. When knife fighting, select the grip appropriate for your range of engagement. To accomplish this there are three knife fighting ranges which you must be aware of. They include the following: (1) Long Range Combat- The hammer grip is ideal for this range of combat; (2) Mid Range Combat- The hammer grip is still the most preferred grip for this distance of engagement; (3) Close-Quarter Range Combat - The ice pick grip or modified ice pick grip is preferred in this particular range of combat.

    KNIFE FIGHTING #4 FAMILIARIZE YOURSELF WITH DIFFERENT TYPES OF EDGED WEAPONS. Familiarize yourself with the different types of fighting knives that are used by street criminals. There are seven different classifications of knives. They include the following: (1) Gravity Blades; (2) Spring Blades; (3) Lock Blades; (4) Folding Blades; (5) Fixed Blades; (6) Ballistic Blades; (7) Makeshift/Improvised Blades.

    KNIFE FIGHTING #5 MASTER THE TWO PRIMARY GRIPS. One of the foundational elements of effective knife fighting is the grip. In edged weapon combat, there are two primary knife grips that you must master. They are: (1) Hammer Grip - this grip is generally used for long and mid range knife fighting. Both slashing and linear thrusting movements can be applied with this grip; (2) Ice Pick Grip - this grip does have limited movement. It is generally used for close-quarter knife fighting. Both tight slashing and angular stabbing movements can be applied with this type of grip.

    KNIFE FIGHTING #6 NEVER THROW A KNIFE. Contrary to what you may have seen in the movies, never throw your knife at your assailant when engaged in edged weapon combat. This is dangerous for the following reasons: (1) Knife Type - few fighting knives are specifically designed and balanced for throwing movements; (2) Target Acquisition - it is extremely difficult to hit a moving target when throwing any type of knife; (3) Arms Your Adversary - if your fighting knife misses its target, it will automatically arm your adversary.

    KNIFE FIGHTING #7 DONíT FORGET YOUR SECONDARY WEAPONS. When knife fighting, never forget that you have numerous secondary weapons at your immediate disposal. Some include: (1) Head - used for butting your adversary at close-quarters; (2) Teeth - used for biting your assailant at close-quarters; (3) Elbows - used for striking your assailant at close-quarters; (4) Knees - also used for striking your adversary in close-quarter knife fighting range; (5) Legs - used for kicking your assailant at the mid-range of knife combat; (6) Hands - used for striking your assailant at the mid-range of knife combat.

    KNIFE FIGHTING #8 POSSESS THE THREE ESSENTIAL REQUIREMENTS. Never carry a fighting knife unless you possess the three essential requirements to facilitate effective deployment. (1) Knowledge - this means knowing and understanding the elements, nature and characteristics of knife combat and know how to apply them to any combat situation; (2) Skills - this means possessing the proficiency, facility, or dexterity necessary for knife combat. Skill is developed through training and experience, and it is perfected through consistent edged weapon practice; (3) Attitude - this refers to your immediate state of mind or disposition toward fighting with knives. The bottom line is, you must always possess a positive mental awareness.

    KNIFE FIGHTING #9 HOLD YOUR KNIFE IN FRONT OF YOU. When fighting with knives, hold your fighting knife in your front hand. This knife forward stance is critical for these two reasons: (1) It brings your closest weapon (your fighting knife) to the assailantís closest targets; (2) The unprotected (or unarmed) side of your body is kept back and away from your assailant stabs and slashes. Generally a lead hand knife fighter will have a tactical advantage over a rear hand knife fighter when knife fighting.

    KNIFE FIGHTING #10 EXPECT TO GET CUT. Whether youíre unarmed and defending against a knife attack or fighting with knives against your adversary, expect to get cut. This frame of mind is critical for the following reasons: (1) It prepares you for the cold reality of knife fighting; (2) It helps prevent you from going into mental shock if you do get cut in a knife fight; (3) It frees you from the mental concern of your well-being during the altercation.

    KNIFE FIGHTING #11 NEVER THREATEN YOUR ADVERSARY WITH A KNIFE. A fighting knife is a tool of destruction that is intended to injure or kill, not intimidate. Never pull a knife unless youíre legally and morally justified to use it. Remember, knife fighting is not glamourous. It's not like the movies. Knife fighting is gruesome, dangerous and above all - deadly! A fighting knife should only be displayed when you have no other choice but to defend yourself or loved ones from death!

    KNIFE FIGHTING #12 IT'S NOT A GAME. Never forget that knife combat is not a game and should only be a last resort in a self defense situation. Moreover, be very selective when searching for a edged weapon instructor. There are many charlantans out there just trying to make a quick buck off the public. You should search for a knife fighting instructor with the same care as you would looking for a good doctor.s a blade


  2. #2
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    My plan is for their knife to come to my gun fight.
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    Ex Member Array BioGLoCK23's Avatar
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    Absolutely, but I bet you carry a knife too... right?

    Might as well know how to fight effectively with it.

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    In regards to the quoted....

    Quote Originally Posted by BioGLoCK23 View Post
    (4) Choose a blade that is sharp and large enough to penetrate the criminal assailant’s vital arteries and organs when knife fighting;
    A lot of people think they need long or large blade knives... granted, the larger and longer the more cutting and stabbing you can get but a small 3" blade can easily make 6" deep slashes and can be buried very far into a perpetrator.

    If you go to classes that allow you for live cutting on animal carcasses you will see how easy it is to get a small blade to do a LOT of damage including breaking bones, cutting windpipes, slicing meat down to the bone and subsequently chipping bone and so much more.

    This is me cutting up a deer carcass at a knife class. It's kind of hard to see the actual cuts because because of the quality and lighting but there is a moment when you can hear a rib breaking and another moment where I bury the knife up to my hand. I could have easily gone further but we were cautioned to take things slow and gentle because many a student had previous ended up with their hand buried in the carcass and upon extraction cut their hand on broken bone.



    You can also see on this video what just the tip of a blade will do with very simple movements....



    Lastly, if I could add anything it would be #13.... knives vs clothing is a bit different than knives vs skin alone... I'll just let you watch for yourself.


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    Quote Originally Posted by BioGLoCK23 View Post
    Absolutely, but I bet you carry a knife too... right? ...
    Not for defensive purposes, but I do often carry a BUG . You have a point (no pun intended) that those who carry a knife for defensive purposes had better be well-trained on how to use it. I just don't have the time for that sort of training, therefore I just make the assumption that any knife that I present will be promptly shoved right back in me by my attacker. I see way too many people who carry a nice blade for "self defense" that have no clue nor experience in how to use it. I know enough to know what I don't know.

    Once my firearm has failed me (assuming that I'm still alive), all bets are off and I'll use anything and everything at my disposal. However, knives are not part of my self-defense plan.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHEC724 View Post
    ... knives are not part of my self-defense plan.
    What got me interested in carrying a knife was a force-on-force scenario wherein I had my gun taken away from me and used on me by a bigger/stronger attacker. We fought over the gun for a few minutes and I had decent control but eventually he just overpowered me.

    Afterward I was asked what I could have done to win in that scenario and I said that perhaps, if I'd had a knife, I could have used that to get him off of my gun.

    The response was, "Well, why didn't you?"

    It was a good question. Why wasn't I carrying something that could have saved my life? It felt kind of stupid to be shot with my own $750 gun (in a nonlethal sense) that I carry to save my life, when a simple $40 blade could have been the difference between life and death in that case.

    That was also when I realized that a folder in my pocket would have not done me much good. I would have had to get into my pocket with one hand while rolling around on the ground with a man who was actively trying to take away my gun that I was gripping for dear life with my other hand, get the blade out and THEN make the kind of disabling cuts that would force him to let go of my gun... that's a lot of work.

    I made time and money for my knife class and it's one of the best investments in my personal defense if I may say so myself.

    I think they can be a very valuable tool.

    (Not that I think you HAVE TO or NEED TO carry one (that is a personal decision), but they are a tool you can put in your tool box)

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    Ex Member Array BioGLoCK23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHEC724 View Post
    Once my firearm has failed me (assuming that I'm still alive), all bets are off and I'll use anything and everything at my disposal. However, knives are not part of my self-defense plan.
    To each his own, Sir...

    My defense plan goes... OC spray / fist, elbows, knees (if appropriate) / firearm / knife as a last resort in the event of a gun failure, or I somehow lose possession or control of my pistol.
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    Ex Member Array BioGLoCK23's Avatar
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    Lima, may I ask what knife you've chosen for EDC?


    In your videos you appear to be using the Ka-Bar TDI law enforcement knife. Is that your daily carry?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BioGLoCK23 View Post
    Lima, may I ask what knife you've chosen for EDC?


    In your videos you appear to be using the Ka-Bar TDI law enforcement knife. Is that your daily carry?
    Yes. The TDI is a very intuitive, easy to carry/conceal knife. I sometimes also carry an LDK around my neck or in a pocket and a Gerber Crucial in my pocket or bag for utilitarian purposes.

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    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    In regards to the quoted....



    A lot of people think they need long or large blade knives... granted, the larger and longer the more cutting and stabbing you can get but a small 3" blade can easily make 6" deep slashes and can be buried very far into a perpetrator.

    If you go to classes that allow you for live cutting on animal carcasses you will see how easy it is to get a small blade to do a LOT of damage including breaking bones, cutting windpipes, slicing meat down to the bone and subsequently chipping bone and so much more.

    This is me cutting up a deer carcass at a knife class. It's kind of hard to see the actual cuts because because of the quality and lighting but there is a moment when you can hear a rib breaking and another moment where I bury the knife up to my hand. I could have easily gone further but we were cautioned to take things slow and gentle because many a student had previous ended up with their hand buried in the carcass and upon extraction cut their hand on broken bone.



    You can also see on this video what just the tip of a blade will do with very simple movements....



    Lastly, if I could add anything it would be #13.... knives vs clothing is a bit different than knives vs skin alone... I'll just let you watch for yourself.

    You cannot fathom how many "Women in the kitchen" & "Playing with your food" jokes are coming to my mind right now.
    limatunes likes this.

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    RE: Knives - I like the Lagriffe/CRKT Bear Claw type as they fit into a boxing/FMA methodology very well.

    Additionally, you can use them in a point driven method without fear of your hand slipping off the handle onto the blade.

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    WHEC - I think I agree with you. I do carry a small knife, but it is for cutting clothing to make wound dressings, and other utilitarian tasks. My back up to my primary pistol - is another pistol.

    Question about the neck knives, like the LDK...is there a concern with these, if you are in a car accident? Seems like the seat belt would go right over the knife, and then there is the force of the air bag hitting you. Would hate to get stabbed with my own knife, especially in that spot. Not sure I would trust a plastic scabbard to keep me safe in such an event.
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    Distinguished Member Array Jason Storm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHEC724 View Post
    My plan is for their knife to come to my gun fight.
    Let's just hope you don't let the knife guy get too close just like it has been proven by the Tueller Drill. If you deal with a knife attack and you have a gun, you better have that gun out of the holster. If not, better be at least 21 ft. away, move sideways from the attack, or have some kind of barrier or some unarmed CQC tactic to fend off the knife as you draw your pistol. A knifer is someone not to be taken lightly.

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    Jason, "A knifer is someone not to be taken lightly " may be the understatement of the year. I have dealt with many "Stabbings", "knife fights", "homicides", and "gang fights" over the past 25+ years as a "LEO" and it is always an ugly situation. Sadly, most of the time the victim dosen't see it coming until it is upon them.
    A Wise Man Changes His Mind, but a Fool Never Does

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    If you are interested in knife fighting read Bo Randalls'/Col. Rex Applegates' book on it. "The Fighting Knife" It is out of print but you can pick up a copy on e-bay under "Randall Knife" sometimes, or maybe the library can get you a copy. The slash and thrust style is extremely affective. Great booklet!




    Yes, that is my carry gun.
    Last edited by Highhawk; October 22nd, 2011 at 07:23 PM. Reason: adding words

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