Practice, clothing, and surprise.

This is a discussion on Practice, clothing, and surprise. within the Defensive Knives & Other Weapons forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; There is another thread here somewhere about responding to an attack by someone swinging a baseball bat. I mentioned there that I was going to ...

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Thread: Practice, clothing, and surprise.

  1. #1
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    Practice, clothing, and surprise.

    There is another thread here somewhere about responding to an attack by someone swinging a baseball bat. I mentioned there that I was going to play with that scenario at the gym and see how things go--- not well actually.

    When being pressed by Psychobubba and his bat, there is very little time to decide how to respond and even to draw a gun and attempt to get it into play.

    Today, I decided to see how responding to a bat with pepper might go.

    I had a small canister of Mean Green in my rt rear pocket. The idea was that as the bat attack began I would pull out the pepper and blast my partner--of course in simulation.

    What I learned: Dang--- 1) You have to practice gripping that thing so as you take it out of your pocket it is pointing in the right direction. I'm going to put a piece of tape or do something to mark the direction.

    2) It is better to have it seated in your back pocket with the nozel facing down. It is easier to withdraw it in the right orientation for a spritz, when it is carried that way.

    3) My jeans were a tad tight today, and the canister repeatedly got stuck on the pocket seam so I couldn't get the thing out. Slightly looser jeans or bigger pockets would be helpful.

    My point, we all go the range, some take an occasional FOF course. Some do --as I have been-- lots of H2H. I'll assume most of us are aware that we have to carry our pistol or revolver in a way that allows for rapid access and many in fact practice drawing the gun and getting on target.

    How many actually practice with pepper?

    I learned quite a bit trying to retrieve that canister from various pockets while keeping my balance and my ability to time moves with the flow of the attacker. One thing I learned was the attire you are wearing counts, and which pocket the pepper is in counts, and stuff like the size and shape of the cylinder and the nozel mechanism count. Practice is needed.

    I also played around with reaching for the pepper while physically tussling with my simulated attacker. It is an interesting exercise. I'd kick him back against the cage, put my forearm on his neck, and attempt to retrieve the pepper to simulate spraying him. Its tough. In most instances continuing with H2H would have been more productive than wasting time reaching for the pepper.

    Many have posted here about the need for FOF combat handgun training. It holds true for other devices we might carry as well. I guess that is my important message. That and practice.

    Find someone to play with and practice.
    Last edited by Hopyard; November 23rd, 2011 at 06:32 PM. Reason: spell correction "than
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    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Great data to think about.

    I think when attacked by ANY melee weapon, getting off the X and creating separation is paramount to drawing your weapon and firing. If you can create distance, you can create time to draw and adequately defend yourself without being the recipient of said melee weapon.

    I pocket carried for the longest time until I tried it in a force on force situation and a move and fire situation. When your legs are moving it creates a bend at the hip where the pocket is, making it fun to get the weapon out properly. I couldn't imagine trying to fish pepper spray out, defeat the safety lock and then utilize it when surprised.

    I can see that the pepper spray may call for an AIWB solution as well

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    Good food for thought.
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    AIWB ?
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Appendix carry.... inside the waistband

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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    Appendix carry.... inside the waistband
    Yes. Hadn't thought of that. I have some Fox spray that can attach to a belt but that isn't what I played with today. I need to look at that again. Just now as I type I'm not so sure that you could pull the cylinder out of the holder easily or that it would come off the belt without getting stuck.
    It is also designed for the pocket; key chain, and I don't think rapid deployment is going to happen--though I haven't tried it yet with that particular device.

    The point I'm getting at is what ever you carry, knife, pepper, flashlight, you need to put some serious effort into practicing with it. A real bad moment is when you try to use it for real and it doesn't go well.
    Last edited by Hopyard; November 23rd, 2011 at 08:37 PM. Reason: spelling
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    Great data to think about.

    I think when attacked by ANY melee weapon, getting off the X and creating separation is paramount to drawing your weapon and firing. If you can create distance, you can create time to draw and adequately defend yourself without being the recipient of said melee weapon.

    I pocket carried for the longest time until I tried it in a force on force situation and a move and fire situation. When your legs are moving it creates a bend at the hip where the pocket is, making it fun to get the weapon out properly. I couldn't imagine trying to fish pepper spray out, defeat the safety lock and then utilize it when surprised.

    I can see that the pepper spray may call for an AIWB solution as well
    Maybe my age is a factor, but I don't move fast enough going backward or shuffling sideways. I'm
    better off stepping in --maybe that stems from some Arnis training years back too.

    Because being retired and bored I'm able to get to the gym 2-3 hours a week, and because I have a good young man working with me (for less money than he is worth), I'm lucky and able to think up scenarios and play with them. But, I think any guy with a willing pal or BIL or son, can try some of these things --just don't go crazy and get hurt.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Maybe carrying the pepper spray in your hand when you are moving about outside or in areas where your threat level is elevated?

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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    Maybe carrying the pepper spray in your hand when you are moving about outside or in areas where your threat level is elevated?
    Well sure, but I avoid those if I can. I don't want trouble to find me.

    I try to practice for the unexpected attack. The real deal is never expected. My instructor will have me stand there or sit, with my eyes closed. Then he yells an obscenity and attacks. I never know what will come. Shove, grab, kick, choke, simulated knife attack, stick, gun to head, gun to back, and so on. Or he'll put a bunch of different "weapons" on the floor and make me fight him off and grab one; or disarm him and fight him off.

    Even as a training game where I know he isn't actually going to hurt me except by accident, it gets pretty intense.

    I'm real fortunate to be able to do any of this stuff at my age, and he tells me he has young students who can't spar 3 minute rounds like I do because they don't have the cardio conditioning.

    Still, nearly 69 and 14 pills a days is what it is. I'm having fun while I still can.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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    Senior Member Array RemMod597's Avatar
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    The common theme I see in all this is, a design failure in the cannisters themselves.
    How about a more natural-to-the-grip designed container/delivery system?


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