18" Asp. But get some sorts of basic training.
This is a discussion on Expandable Batons does anyone here carry one? within the Defensive Knives & Other Weapons forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; If slap jacks are illegal in pa then how come they sell them At gunshows in pa. I just picked one up. Should I not ...
If slap jacks are illegal in pa then how come they sell them
At gunshows in pa. I just picked one up. Should I not carry
18" Asp. But get some sorts of basic training.
I live in South Texas and knuckles and switchblades are illegal but I can pick them up for 10 bucks a peice at gun shows. People will sell you anything dosnt mean its legal to own/carry, If its illegal in Pa I would deffinetly not carry it or let others locally know you own one.
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Illegal to own, illegal to sell, and illegal to carry are three very different things. The law is a game of symantics. Laws are written by wordsmiths. If it isn't specifically stated are permitted or not permitted then it isn't specifically addressed which leaves it basically (unless otherwise stated elsewhere) "not illegal". It's one thing to be legal, it's another thing to be illegal. It is completely different to be "not illegal". AND, OR, NOT; the logical operators are key.
As far as the courts are concerned the Cops can beat you with a stick to subdue you (even if you do not pose a lethal threat to them) because they are trained in how to do that without causing lethal injury. Civilians rarely have that same training. Civilians without that training are going to be looked at as using a lethal weapon...period...no matter how they were using it.
The problem is that depending on your particular jurisdiction you might well be committing aggravated assault by pulling a club and using it on someone who is assaulting you with empty hands. YES there are mitigating circumstances that may well be in play in any particular situation...but by and large...you pulling a club (asp, blackjack, sap, whatever) may well be interpreted by the powers that be as you were using lethal force to respond to the situation...no matter how you used it. And if they were armed and using lethal force against you...it is just foolish to respond to that by trying to hit them in the knee. You see the situations where the "hit them in the knee with a club" actually works best is in situations where we are probably NOT going to be viewed as being in reasonable fear of grave bodily injury or death. The club is likely to be viewed as using lethal force....no matter the intent. And that is why the club is somewhat redundant to the civilian when you also carry a gun.
The issue of how it will be looked at by the courts is an issue of training. If you can prove you were "trained" in the use of the club to use it as a "less than lethal " weapon (LIKE POLICE ARE TRAINED) then it will probably be OK. But it is always a crap shoot.
Do what you want. But in the eyes of the law you using a blunt instrument to hit someone who is not posing a LETHAL THREAT to you is probably not going to be looked at as self defense. It is most likely going to be looked at as aggravated assault. And if they WERE actually threatening you with lethal force...then you probably don't really want to risk answering that with nonlethal force.
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In Texas, carrying a baton is illegal unless you are LEO or private security and you carry a certification. The baton or expandable baton is considered a "club" under texas's penal code and is considered a "prohibited weapon" just like brass knuckles, a switchblade knife, and other items. It's a class A misdemeanor.
That being said, I am in law enforcement and have two ASP batons. Both 21" versions. One is the friction lock with the wave master grip and an ASP leverage cap. The second is an ASP Talon. Both are great tools and with proper training and practice can be a great intermediate force weapon.
The orignal weapon
I have spoken at least a few times around here regarding my fondness for sticks. I have regarded my expectation that a bullet delivered by a handgun will have at least the equivalent affect as a blow delivered via a long stick, a very long stick it could be.
Here in Iowa we are issued, apparently similar to some other states, a "Permit to Carry Weapons" - sticks, long blades, magic dust, all kinds of deadly and deceptive stuff not otherwise banned like explosives.
I can't think of any weapons at my disposal that are not potentially lethal. A pepper spray container could certainly deliver a lethal blow full or empty. These expandable battons are certainly formidable weapons but always keep in mind that they are potentially lethal and deserve the same rules of engagement as any other weapon.
FWIW, I only carry shorties in the stick department, a kubotan or a flashlight or both.
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It's interesting every time to read about US laws equally or even more strange than those here in Europe. To be allowed to carry a firearm but not a tiny baton... hard to understand, but ok, don't search for reasonable weapon laws.
Here in Germany till 2008 we could carry any sharp or impact weapon everywhere. If you were in the mood you could amble through the city with two swords on your back, your belt full of knives and batons, using a spear as a walking stick (not that I have ever seen someone doing it). Now that's over, all such weapons are illegal to carry. Of course nothing changed with criminality, low before and low afterwards.
So no batons allowed, collapsible or not. I usually carry an umbrella ( a special unbreakable one), maybe that's also an option in some states of the USA. You have it in your hand ready to use all the time, it looks innocent (and I can take it with me into court rooms etc.) but is essentially a 35 inch/25 ounces baton with a strong metal tip (not pointed). It is also useful when it rains.
These are a great tool, if you're properly trained to use one. Just buying one without any training is just like having a gun in the nightstand when you've never shot a gun before. It won't do you much good, and could quite possibly be used against you.
I suggest some training in tactical baton, or a martial art called "Arnis" which is a Filipino style of combat, and what I studied prior to using a baton.
I don't carry mine every day, but I do at times, depending on the situation, clothing I wear, etc. Also, a great backup when you have to leave the gun secured elsewhere.
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I don't recall the legality in OR. I was considering one awhile back for use in the event of animal attack or special case situation. I never got around to investigating whether or not it was really an option. I'm already carrying a light, knife, and pistol, and have a lot of hand to hand training/experience.
One thing that I have learned from a lot of martial arts is that I have no interest in toning down my force if I fear for my life. I have a lot of faith in my ability, but I also have a healthy understanding of how easy it is for things to go wrong. If I face lethal force, I will go directly to my best option. My family means too much to me for me to try to answer a knife with a baton.
Currently own: Beretta PX4 9mm, Glock 23 (Gen 4), Glock 19 (Gen 4) x2
I'm seriously hopeful that lightsabers will be a reality in my lifetime. That's the only kind of expandable baton like weapon I would want to carry.
I have a 24 inch piece of very hard, cherry wood (about the thickness of the grip of a tennis racket).
Some grip tape for the handle and a lanyard attached for retention. I keep it in my car and carry it when I walk for excercise. Mainly for potential encounters with overly aggressive dogs (four legged or two legged).
I feel pretty well protected and it cost me absolutely nothing.
"Life is tough but it's really tough if you are stupid"
I am ASP certified and used to carry a 16" ASP. In TN (legal to carry with proper permit ), the laws for using one in self-defense is the same as a gun, and it was just heavy and took up space. I haven't carried it in years.
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