This is a discussion on Need to get around a "no weapons" policy. within the Defensive Knives & Other Weapons forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Toorop You also get paid to follow the agrees to rules. If you agree to be there at 9:00 and don't come ...
Like most jobs, a part of your orientation was becoming familiar with company policies, and you probably even had to sign a form stating that you read, understood, and agreed to follow company policy and procedures. You knew that your company had a strict no weapons policy, so why are you complaining now? Either obey the policy, disregard the policy and accept that you will be caught and fired eventually (and you will), or just quit, to avoid the hassle of having to be a liar and a sneak, and being caught as such. And, yes, by trying to circumvent company policy, you are a liar and a sneak.
I work for a large corporation, and I bring my gun to work with me. This is only because our company policy only prohibits illegal items. Since I carry a gun legally, one could interpret that the rule would not apply to me. Still, I carry a small gun, and conceal it well, to avoid having to explain why I have a gun at work, and possibly causing the policy to be altered to specifically ban weapons in the workplace. I have broken no rules, and I'm not being a liar or sneak about anything. I'm only avoiding an awkward situation. If my company did one day decide to ban weapons onsite, I would have to consider quitting, or to leave my gun in my truck. If I sign a form saying that I'll follow company policy, that's as good as giving my word to someone. I don't make it a habit to break my word to someone. Do you? Is your word worth that little, that you'd break it as soon as it became inconvenient for you? Are you a person of no character, or are you a man of honor?
Something to think about.
As said, tactical pens and also tactical flashlights--some of which have very sharp ends, are effective. If someone who ought not, looks at my less than six inch long tac light with 270 lumens, they will be momentarily blinded and that will give me ample time to shove the other hard steel end hard into their forehead--I doubt if they'll get up or be well cooridinated after that. Try Fenix for starters.
There are various plastic knives, dirks, daggers, 'shivs'--whatever you want to call them available There are also some triangular chrome knives, less than 2 inches in length, with sharp serrated edges that the glint of the shiney chrome alone ought to put a scare in someone. A tightly rolled magazine, with strong rubber bands is a baton--the round ends can break bones, although you can buy small metal ones that collapse, as pointed out.
"Zero Tolerance" for weapons in schools is a misnomer, when a full sized sharply pointed pencil can, when put through an eye, can kill almost instanteneously--to the neck or chest can even do great damage.
You can take a coin and shave one half of edge sharp enough to slice a throat open. Almost everything in our world that's good can be made to do bad, sadly enough.
When I was a kid and I was in risk of fighting a much larger foe, a roll of nickels in my fists equalized things considerably--a shot to the jaw--cheek bone section typically rattled their head to the point of knock out and if anybody was watching, they had no idea my fists were 'loaded'. If the BG gets too close in, try and take him out with your elbow-for most folks, a well thrown elbow has as much force as a hand punch, if not more. They get too close for that, and a hard head butt will hurt them a lot more and they can meet your knee along the way......
Last edited by Rangel; March 10th, 2012 at 02:36 AM.
As pointed out, a Maglite with 3 or 4 D cells in it can dole out one heckuva whack. Be sure to get the led 'bulb" version, the extra brightness can disorient a BG. Lowes hardware sells em dirt cheap every black Friday and all my family members have one in their vehicles.
In our county, you can get arrested for having an axe handle and for even having a baseball bat if you have no other evidence of healthy athletic activity in your vehicle. Maybe someday dirty looks and flipping the bird will be illegal too!!
I have been involved with several corporate committees that have formulated paradoxical policies like these self-defense prohibitions. I'll let you in on a little secret: no one in management or on the legal team actually expects these policies to be followed. Whether they are followed or not is irrelevant. They are merely intended to minimize the company's liability exposure in the event of a potential future lawsuit. Yes, an employee who defends themselves or others will likely be terminated, but that would certainly beat the alternative for the employee. This corporate hypocrisy is an unfortunate consequence of the litigious society we have become.
Something interesting I've observed is that the propensity to break corporate carry polices actually increases with higher levels of management. At a few of of the companies I've worked with (especially in automotive and defense), almost everyone in upper management carried firearms in violation of the corporate policies they themselves were in charge of enforcing. They put their own safety first, why shouldn't their employees? No corporate policy is worth dying for. Something more important to think about.
He should either follow the rules, or man up, and quit. It's refreshing to see how many fine, upstanding citizens here are encouraging the OP to disregard the rules because, ******! it's his right. Well, the ower of the company, and the property, have rights, too. Namely, private property rights, and they have the right not to want anyone armed on their premises. In some states, willfully violating a No Weapons policy is grounds for arrest. Some states don't even allow carry, like NY and NJ. But the hell with their laws, right? It's your right to carry, right? So screw it all, carry in NY and NJ, even if your permit is from PA or OH. Tell that to a judge, because they'll understand. Tell that to the unemployment office, because they'll be on your side 100%.
YOU seem to be the only one, that would rather make your employer happy, instead of protecting your own life.
YOU are the only one who gives half a crap of whether somebody else THINKS your a "liar and a sneak" <- What are you 6 years old?
YOU are the only one who would give advise to quit a job with a crappy economy when you could just continue to do it and not bother anybody.
NOBODY is telling anybody to carry illegally!
NY & NJ DO Allow conceal carry, it's just hard to get it.
In short, your alone on your moral crusade to impress yourself. While your patting your self on the back for not being a sneak, I and most of us will still be alive.
Actually, I agree in principle (if not necessarily in method) with the idea that one's integrity is of value....and perhaps of equal value to one's life.
That is, there are things I will not do even if it costs me my life, because I would rather forfeit my life than do those things. I think (hope) all of us have such a line.
Dumbledork is simply pointing out that his line includes being a man of his word, even if that word means he gives up his right to carry concealed. He honors the right of the employer to set standards of dress and behavior....and if he says "Yes, I can abide by that" then he will....even at the cost of his life.
Snatale42, (if I'm reading you right) disagrees with that line. Saying you'll abide by a rule and intentionally breaking it (which some call lying) is ok for him if the option is to give up the right to carry concealed at work.
I think there are more who agree that they'd have their word carry weight and integrity than carry everywhere....they just choose not to argue about it.
That said, the OP just wants to explore the options....maybe find where the line is between being a man of his word and still being able to defend himself. Can we just keep exploring those options?
+1 on the TDI tactical defense knife.
Glock 26 XD9sc
Ruger SR9c Ruger LCP
Don't cry to me about the economy. There are jobs out there. The question is, are you willing to do them? If a person is so unskilled that he can only gain employment in one particular field, that's not my fault. I have enough experience, education, and training, to do a multitude of jobs in various fields, so leaving a job and finding another is not an issue for me. If things get realy bad, I'm not too proud to flip burgers for a living.
I've left jobs where I felt my values and ideals were being compromised. As I've stated earlier, the place I currently work haas no rules regarding weapons in the workplace, so I carry at work. I tell no one, because I'd like to avoid it becoming an issue, and cause my employer to rethink the company policy on weapons to the extent that they revise it to ban them. If or when, this becomes the case, I'll have a decision to make: should I stay or should I go? I would most likely leave for another job if this were to happen.
Don't presume to know what I understand. You will fail, every time. As for moral "crusades", it's only a crusade if I gave a crap about what any of you did with your lives. I happen not to. You want to renege on an agreement you made? Be my guest, you're not my employee. If youwere, yo'd be on the street before you had time to protest.