Need to get around a "no weapons" policy. - Page 5

Need to get around a "no weapons" policy.

This is a discussion on Need to get around a "no weapons" policy. within the Defensive Knives & Other Weapons forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Toorop You also get paid to follow the agrees to rules. If you agree to be there at 9:00 and don't come ...

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Thread: Need to get around a "no weapons" policy.

  1. #61
    Ex Member Array Snatale42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toorop View Post
    You also get paid to follow the agrees to rules. If you agree to be there at 9:00 and don't come in until whenever you feel like it, you can lose your job. Sorry but it is a contract. If you feel your word isn't worth dirt then that's fine, but I will still believe in honor and integrity. Sorry but the law says you entered an agreement then tou should follow it. As far as religion, it is a sin to lie and some of us take that seriously. Whether you do or don't, that is your business. But nevertheless you are still a liar and a dishonorable person to break the agreement with your employer.
    Being an employee in 99.99% of jobs does not involve a "Contract" I've never given my word that I will glady NOT protect my life if needed. Please site what "Law" says become an employee implies that your under a contract to disarm, even if it IS policy it's NOT law. I'll live a liar (according to you), you die knowing you didn't make your job mad! Your no better than Bloomberg when he says he not against guns, only the illegal ones....SURE!!!!!!!! If my employer doesn't care enough about MY LIFE to allow me to practice MY CONSTITUTION RIGHT to self defense, why the hell to I care about there policy! Do you also disarm when you see a gunbuster sign that holds no legal weight, just because they want you too. Do everybody a favor, sell your guns, move to NY and help Bloomberg, because your on the wrong side of the fight!


  2. #62
    Member Array Dumbledork's Avatar
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    Like most jobs, a part of your orientation was becoming familiar with company policies, and you probably even had to sign a form stating that you read, understood, and agreed to follow company policy and procedures. You knew that your company had a strict no weapons policy, so why are you complaining now? Either obey the policy, disregard the policy and accept that you will be caught and fired eventually (and you will), or just quit, to avoid the hassle of having to be a liar and a sneak, and being caught as such. And, yes, by trying to circumvent company policy, you are a liar and a sneak.

    I work for a large corporation, and I bring my gun to work with me. This is only because our company policy only prohibits illegal items. Since I carry a gun legally, one could interpret that the rule would not apply to me. Still, I carry a small gun, and conceal it well, to avoid having to explain why I have a gun at work, and possibly causing the policy to be altered to specifically ban weapons in the workplace. I have broken no rules, and I'm not being a liar or sneak about anything. I'm only avoiding an awkward situation. If my company did one day decide to ban weapons onsite, I would have to consider quitting, or to leave my gun in my truck. If I sign a form saying that I'll follow company policy, that's as good as giving my word to someone. I don't make it a habit to break my word to someone. Do you? Is your word worth that little, that you'd break it as soon as it became inconvenient for you? Are you a person of no character, or are you a man of honor?

    Something to think about.
    Toorop likes this.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by flor1 View Post
    If your any type of DOT truck driver it's totally illegal to carry in your truck
    If you get stopped and weapon is found your going to jail.
    That is simply not true.
    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by jon_volk View Post
    Do you have to walk through metal detectors or get pat down? If not......
    my employer has the same, what they dont know wont hurt em

  5. #65
    Member Array Rangel's Avatar
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    As said, tactical pens and also tactical flashlights--some of which have very sharp ends, are effective. If someone who ought not, looks at my less than six inch long tac light with 270 lumens, they will be momentarily blinded and that will give me ample time to shove the other hard steel end hard into their forehead--I doubt if they'll get up or be well cooridinated after that. Try Fenix for starters.

    There are various plastic knives, dirks, daggers, 'shivs'--whatever you want to call them available There are also some triangular chrome knives, less than 2 inches in length, with sharp serrated edges that the glint of the shiney chrome alone ought to put a scare in someone. A tightly rolled magazine, with strong rubber bands is a baton--the round ends can break bones, although you can buy small metal ones that collapse, as pointed out.

    "Zero Tolerance" for weapons in schools is a misnomer, when a full sized sharply pointed pencil can, when put through an eye, can kill almost instanteneously--to the neck or chest can even do great damage.

    You can take a coin and shave one half of edge sharp enough to slice a throat open. Almost everything in our world that's good can be made to do bad, sadly enough.

    When I was a kid and I was in risk of fighting a much larger foe, a roll of nickels in my fists equalized things considerably--a shot to the jaw--cheek bone section typically rattled their head to the point of knock out and if anybody was watching, they had no idea my fists were 'loaded'. If the BG gets too close in, try and take him out with your elbow-for most folks, a well thrown elbow has as much force as a hand punch, if not more. They get too close for that, and a hard head butt will hurt them a lot more and they can meet your knee along the way......
    Last edited by Rangel; March 10th, 2012 at 02:36 AM.

  6. #66
    Member Array Rangel's Avatar
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    As pointed out, a Maglite with 3 or 4 D cells in it can dole out one heckuva whack. Be sure to get the led 'bulb" version, the extra brightness can disorient a BG. Lowes hardware sells em dirt cheap every black Friday and all my family members have one in their vehicles.

    In our county, you can get arrested for having an axe handle and for even having a baseball bat if you have no other evidence of healthy athletic activity in your vehicle. Maybe someday dirty looks and flipping the bird will be illegal too!!

  7. #67
    Ex Member Array Toorop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyro07 View Post
    my employer has the same, what they dont know wont hurt em
    Except for if you have an ND or an AD and they get sued because of it.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dumbledork View Post
    Either obey the policy, disregard the policy and accept that you will be caught and fired eventually (and you will), or just quit, to avoid the hassle of having to be a liar and a sneak, and being caught as such. And, yes, by trying to circumvent company policy, you are a liar and a sneak.
    Oh horror of horrors, someone on the internet might consider anyone who chooses to posses the means of defending their life to be a liar and a sneak!!! And thank you for the warning that the poster will be caught! The vast majority of the millions of concealed carriers who never get caught must just be lucky.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dumbledork View Post
    Are you a person of no character, or are you a man of honor? Something to think about.
    Now that's funny! Seriously though, many companies have policies prohibiting their employees from defending themselves in any capacity in any situation. Anyone who would blindly follow such a stupid rule out of some kind of perverse sense of "honor" would probably be doing society a favor by removing their weak genes from the population! Ironically, the myopic middle managers who vigilantly enforce these policies tend to be the ones who are most likely to die from them.

    I have been involved with several corporate committees that have formulated paradoxical policies like these self-defense prohibitions. I'll let you in on a little secret: no one in management or on the legal team actually expects these policies to be followed. Whether they are followed or not is irrelevant. They are merely intended to minimize the company's liability exposure in the event of a potential future lawsuit. Yes, an employee who defends themselves or others will likely be terminated, but that would certainly beat the alternative for the employee. This corporate hypocrisy is an unfortunate consequence of the litigious society we have become.

    Something interesting I've observed is that the propensity to break corporate carry polices actually increases with higher levels of management. At a few of of the companies I've worked with (especially in automotive and defense), almost everyone in upper management carried firearms in violation of the corporate policies they themselves were in charge of enforcing. They put their own safety first, why shouldn't their employees? No corporate policy is worth dying for. Something more important to think about.

  9. #69
    Member Array Dumbledork's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba Blue View Post
    Oh horror of horrors, someone on the internet might consider anyone who chooses to posses the means of defending their life to be a liar and a sneak!!! And thank you for the warning that the poster will be caught! The vast majority of the millions of concealed carriers who never get caught must just be lucky.



    Now that's funny! Seriously though, many companies have policies prohibiting their employees from defending themselves in any capacity in any situation. Anyone who would blindly follow such a stupid rule out of some kind of perverse sense of "honor" would probably be doing society a favor by removing their weak genes from the population! Ironically, the myopic middle managers who vigilantly enforce these policies tend to be the ones who are most likely to die from them.

    I have been involved with several corporate committees that have formulated paradoxical policies like these self-defense prohibitions. I'll let you in on a little secret: no one in management or on the legal team actually expects these policies to be followed. Whether they are followed or not is irrelevant. They are merely intended to minimize the company's liability exposure in the event of a potential future lawsuit. Yes, an employee who defends themselves or others will likely be terminated, but that would certainly beat the alternative for the employee. This corporate hypocrisy is an unfortunate consequence of the litigious society we have become.

    Something interesting I've observed is that the propensity to break corporate carry polices actually increases with higher levels of management. At a few of of the companies I've worked with (especially in automotive and defense), almost everyone in upper management carried firearms in violation of the corporate policies they themselves were in charge of enforcing. They put their own safety first, why shouldn't their employees? No corporate policy is worth dying for. Something more important to think about.
    None of what you said change the fact that the OP is asking for assistance to lie and be a sneak. If he's that determined to not follow company policy (which they obviously take seriously, or he wouldn't have to be sneaky), then he can find employment elsewhere. If I owned a company, I would expect the rules I set in place to be obeyed. If one of my rules said that employees were not allowed to smoke, and were expected to quit within 3 months of being hired, I would run nicotine testing to make sure it was being followed. Anyone with nicotine in their system after working for me or 3 months would be fired. That's called "employer's prerogative", and is legal in it's totality.

    He should either follow the rules, or man up, and quit. It's refreshing to see how many fine, upstanding citizens here are encouraging the OP to disregard the rules because, ******! it's his right. Well, the ower of the company, and the property, have rights, too. Namely, private property rights, and they have the right not to want anyone armed on their premises. In some states, willfully violating a No Weapons policy is grounds for arrest. Some states don't even allow carry, like NY and NJ. But the hell with their laws, right? It's your right to carry, right? So screw it all, carry in NY and NJ, even if your permit is from PA or OH. Tell that to a judge, because they'll understand. Tell that to the unemployment office, because they'll be on your side 100%.

  10. #70
    Ex Member Array Snatale42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dumbledork View Post
    None of what you said change the fact that the OP is asking for assistance to lie and be a sneak. If he's that determined to not follow company policy (which they obviously take seriously, or he wouldn't have to be sneaky), then he can find employment elsewhere. If I owned a company, I would expect the rules I set in place to be obeyed. If one of my rules said that employees were not allowed to smoke, and were expected to quit within 3 months of being hired, I would run nicotine testing to make sure it was being followed. Anyone with nicotine in their system after working for me or 3 months would be fired. That's called "employer's prerogative", and is legal in it's totality.

    He should either follow the rules, or man up, and quit. It's refreshing to see how many fine, upstanding citizens here are encouraging the OP to disregard the rules because, ******! it's his right. Well, the ower of the company, and the property, have rights, too. Namely, private property rights, and they have the right not to want anyone armed on their premises. In some states, willfully violating a No Weapons policy is grounds for arrest. Some states don't even allow carry, like NY and NJ. But the hell with their laws, right? It's your right to carry, right? So screw it all, carry in NY and NJ, even if your permit is from PA or OH. Tell that to a judge, because they'll understand. Tell that to the unemployment office, because they'll be on your side 100%.
    Since your obviously not understanding what going on, I will explain it to you.

    YOU seem to be the only one, that would rather make your employer happy, instead of protecting your own life.
    YOU are the only one who gives half a crap of whether somebody else THINKS your a "liar and a sneak" <- What are you 6 years old?
    YOU are the only one who would give advise to quit a job with a crappy economy when you could just continue to do it and not bother anybody.
    NOBODY is telling anybody to carry illegally!

    NY & NJ DO Allow conceal carry, it's just hard to get it.

    In short, your alone on your moral crusade to impress yourself. While your patting your self on the back for not being a sneak, I and most of us will still be alive.

  11. #71
    Member Array drbald1's Avatar
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    Actually, I agree in principle (if not necessarily in method) with the idea that one's integrity is of value....and perhaps of equal value to one's life.

    That is, there are things I will not do even if it costs me my life, because I would rather forfeit my life than do those things. I think (hope) all of us have such a line.

    Dumbledork is simply pointing out that his line includes being a man of his word, even if that word means he gives up his right to carry concealed. He honors the right of the employer to set standards of dress and behavior....and if he says "Yes, I can abide by that" then he will....even at the cost of his life.

    Snatale42, (if I'm reading you right) disagrees with that line. Saying you'll abide by a rule and intentionally breaking it (which some call lying) is ok for him if the option is to give up the right to carry concealed at work.

    I think there are more who agree that they'd have their word carry weight and integrity than carry everywhere....they just choose not to argue about it.

    That said, the OP just wants to explore the options....maybe find where the line is between being a man of his word and still being able to defend himself. Can we just keep exploring those options?
    Dumbledork likes this.

  12. #72
    VIP Member Array tkruf's Avatar
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    +1 on the TDI tactical defense knife.
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    Ruger SR9c Ruger LCP

  13. #73
    Member Array Dumbledork's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snatale42 View Post
    Since your obviously not understanding what going on, I will explain it to you.

    YOU seem to be the only one, that would rather make your employer happy, instead of protecting your own life.
    YOU are the only one who gives half a crap of whether somebody else THINKS your a "liar and a sneak" <- What are you 6 years old?
    YOU are the only one who would give advise to quit a job with a crappy economy when you could just continue to do it and not bother anybody.
    NOBODY is telling anybody to carry illegally!

    NY & NJ DO Allow conceal carry, it's just hard to get it.

    In short, your alone on your moral crusade to impress yourself. While your patting your self on the back for not being a sneak, I and most of us will still be alive.
    Actually, I understand quite well what's going on. I've joined a forum populated by folks who don't give a second thought to violating rules they don't care for. That's about the long and short of it, I believe. You think sticking to one's word, and not wanting to be considered a person of low moral standards is juvenile? That speaks volumes about your own character, sir. I could care less about making my employer happy. I care about sticking to an agreement I made, because a man is only as good as the word he keeps.

    Don't cry to me about the economy. There are jobs out there. The question is, are you willing to do them? If a person is so unskilled that he can only gain employment in one particular field, that's not my fault. I have enough experience, education, and training, to do a multitude of jobs in various fields, so leaving a job and finding another is not an issue for me. If things get realy bad, I'm not too proud to flip burgers for a living.

    I've left jobs where I felt my values and ideals were being compromised. As I've stated earlier, the place I currently work haas no rules regarding weapons in the workplace, so I carry at work. I tell no one, because I'd like to avoid it becoming an issue, and cause my employer to rethink the company policy on weapons to the extent that they revise it to ban them. If or when, this becomes the case, I'll have a decision to make: should I stay or should I go? I would most likely leave for another job if this were to happen.

    Don't presume to know what I understand. You will fail, every time. As for moral "crusades", it's only a crusade if I gave a crap about what any of you did with your lives. I happen not to. You want to renege on an agreement you made? Be my guest, you're not my employee. If youwere, yo'd be on the street before you had time to protest.

  14. #74
    Member Array foxflyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dumbledork View Post
    Like most jobs, a part of your orientation was becoming familiar with company policies, and you probably even had to sign a form stating that you read, understood, and agreed to follow company policy and procedures. You knew that your company had a strict no weapons policy, so why are you complaining now? Either obey the policy, disregard the policy and accept that you will be caught and fired eventually (and you will), or just quit, to avoid the hassle of having to be a liar and a sneak, and being caught as such. And, yes, by trying to circumvent company policy, you are a liar and a sneak.

    I work for a large corporation, and I bring my gun to work with me. This is only because our company policy only prohibits illegal items. Since I carry a gun legally, one could interpret that the rule would not apply to me. Still, I carry a small gun, and conceal it well, to avoid having to explain why I have a gun at work, and possibly causing the policy to be altered to specifically ban weapons in the workplace. I have broken no rules, and I'm not being a liar or sneak about anything. I'm only avoiding an awkward situation. If my company did one day decide to ban weapons onsite, I would have to consider quitting, or to leave my gun in my truck. If I sign a form saying that I'll follow company policy, that's as good as giving my word to someone. I don't make it a habit to break my word to someone. Do you? Is your word worth that little, that you'd break it as soon as it became inconvenient for you? Are you a person of no character, or are you a man of honor?

    Something to think about.
    Actually Dumbledork you ARE a sneak also. I'm sure anyone here could interpret your "interpretation" of your company's no "illegal" weapons policy a "sneaky" way of being able to take your gun to work...think about that one......

  15. #75
    Member Array Dumbledork's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by foxflyer View Post
    Actually Dumbledork you ARE a sneak also. I'm sure anyone here could interpret your "interpretation" of your company's no "illegal" weapons policy a "sneaky" way of being able to take your gun to work...think about that one......
    It's not so much an interpretation as it is following the policy to the letter. It's not my fault that they worded their policy a certain way. I carry a tactical folder or a butterfly knife at work regularly, and use them at work, and no one gives it a second thought.

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