Washington - Legal to carry?

[Bairhanz]

I've been looking into getting a knife for utility use as well as possible last minute self defense. I work in a studio a lot so cutting crap open and tailoring it is a big deal for me, but I also work all over the Seattle area which isn't exactly warm and cozy at night. I've thought about it, checked some knives out, tried to understand the laws, and I'm still uncertain if the knife I would like to carry would be legal (concealed or clipped to my belt). The knife I'm fairly fixed on is the cold steel counter tac 2. Counter Tac : Tactical Knives (Fixed Blades)
It fits under the 3 1/2" limit, has a small hand guard to make it safer to hold as well as use, and I've always been impressed with cold steel's products. Is this legal to carry on my person? Concealed/clipped to my belt? And what counts as concealed?

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[bzdog]

Seattle is rather knife unfriendly and Seattle law is more restrictive than state law. IIRC, a fixed blade is a no-go in Seattle, but OK for the state (maybe length limit).

I think max in Seattle is 3.5" blade. Note also it can't be an auto.

http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattle911...cealed-knives/

Both the Seattle and State laws are online and you should read them over for yourself.

Unlike firearms laws, any city can set up any type of knife laws they want, so the rules will potentially vary depending on where you are.

If you are going to be in Seattle I'd stick with a folder slightly under 3.5".

YMMV

-john

[ironmike86]

No fixed blade in Seattle

SMC 12A.14.010 Definitions.

The following definitions apply in this chapter:

A. "Air gun" means any air pistol or air rifle designed to propel a BB, pellet or other projectile by the discharge of compressed air, carbon dioxide or other gas.

B. "Chako stick" means a device designed primarily as a weapon, consisting of two or more lengths of wood, metal, plastic or similar substance connected by wire, rope, chain or other means so as to allow free movement of a portion of the device while held in the hand and capable of being rotated in such a manner as to inflict injury upon a person by striking.

C. "Dangerous knife" means any fixed-blade knife and any other knife having a blade more than three and one-half inches (3 1/2") in length.

D. "Fixed-blade knife" means any knife, regardless of blade length, with a blade which is permanently open and does not fold, retract or slide into the handle of the knife, and includes any dagger, sword, bayonet, bolo knife, hatchet, axe, straight-edged razor, or razor blade not in a package, dispenser or shaving appliance.

[Bairhanz]

Thanks for the replies guys, though I do have a couple more questions.
Through my google searches I skimmed across one post saying that while the state laws still apply, unless you're a resident of Seattle (which I am not), it's a grey area of whether or not the knife laws still apply to you.

And as for the rest of the cities in Washington, what really counts as concealed? I feel like some posts have concluded that if the knife can be seen, it's not concealed yet some seemed to have stated that if the blade can't be seen (i.e. in a sheath pocket), even if the handle is visible, it's concealed.

[Cook74]

And as for the rest of the cities in Washington, what really counts as concealed? I feel like some posts have concluded that if the knife can be seen, it's not concealed yet some seemed to have stated that if the blade can't be seen (i.e. in a sheath pocket), even if the handle is visible, it's concealed.

Like any part of a gun being flashed on purpose or by accident, it no longer is considered concealed. Same applies to knives, flash any part of the knife or the sheath, makes one assume you have a knife and is no linger considered concealed...

If you have a smartphone, there are some nice apps that keep the CCW laws and other info available for every state. Two good ones, each has its own importance, are found by going to the Apple App store and searching for CCW.

As far as concealed... first RCW discusses police exemptions and the second one says its a no no for more than knives... so keep it hidden...

RCW 9.41.250: Dangerous weapons

RCW 9.41.270: Weapons apparently capable of producing bodily harm

[ironmike86]

Yea all cities are different. But it doesn't matter if it's concealed or not. Some knives you just can't have. I would just take the city you live in and travel to and use the toughest law. Suck cuz I use to carry my 2 1/2 in fixed blade but no more. Now I carry a 3" folder. And my Glock27 with extra mag. Weird how the knife laws are so strict. You would think is you have a Cpl you could carry something better?? JMO
All Washington City Codes:
City and County Codes


State/City - Law Chapter - Legal Yes/No Folder Length - Wording edited to fit.

Washington - 9.41.250 9.41.270 - Yes None - See State Law. No Blade Length defined in WA Law.

Bainbridge Island - 9.10.040 Y < 3" - Carry any knife, sword, dagger or other cutting or stabbing instrument, with a blade of a length of three inches or more

Camas - 9.28.065 - Yes 3.5" - knife having a blade more than three and one-half inches in length

Cheny - 9A.07.020 - Yes ? - carry concealed upon his person any knife (other than an ordinary pocket knife)

Edmonds - 5.24.012 - Y <3.5" knife having a blade more than three and one-half inches

Ephrata - 9.22.020 - Y <4" with a blade of a length of four or more inches

Everett - 10.78.010 - Y <3" - Dangerous knife” means any knife having a blade more than three inches in length

Federal Way - 6-138 - Y <3" - knife, sword, dagger or other cutting or stabbing instrument, with a blade of a length of three inches or more

Lake Forest Park - 9.06.020 - Y ? - Weapons prohibited in the municipal courtroom with a blade length of three or longer.

Lynnwood - 10.52.020 - Y <3.5" - knife having a blade more than three and one-half inches

New Castle - 9.05.710 - premises where alcoholic beverages are dispensed a Knife with a blade, of a length of three inches or more

Normandy Park - 7.24.040 - carry or conceal any dagger, dirk, knife or other dangerous weapon

Sultan - 9.32.020 - Y <4" -having a blade longer than the length of four or more inches,

[bzdog]

Through my google searches I skimmed across one post saying that while the state laws still apply, unless you're a resident of Seattle (which I am not), it's a grey area of whether or not the knife laws still apply to you.

I'm no lawyer, but I feel pretty confident city law still applies.

If you want to be legal in Seattle, you need to pay attention to Seattle law.

-john

[bzdog]

Weird how the knife laws are so strict. You would think is you have a Cpl you could carry something better?? JMO

It is't weird -- it is because state law has no preemtion clause on knives like they do for firearms. You can bet if they didn't have the preemption law for firearms you'd have restrictive firearms laws in Seattle as well.

And this is exactly why we have the preemtion laws for firearms. Having patchwork laws makes it difficult to know what the law is in any given place.

-john

[ironmike86]

It is't weird -- it is because state law has no preemtion clause on knives like they do for firearms. You can bet if they didn't have the preemption law for firearms you'd have restrictive firearms laws in Seattle as well.

And this is exactly why we have the preemtion laws for firearms. Having patchwork laws makes it difficult to know what the law is in any given place.

-john

No it is weird to me. If I can get a cpl and carry 2 pistols on my body. But I can't carry a 2 1/2 inch fixed knife.

[Hoganbeg]

No it is weird to me. If I can get a cpl and carry 2 pistols on my body. But I can't carry a 2 1/2 inch fixed knife.

It is a PISTOL permit, not a weapon permit. Note that Washington State defines both pistols and revolvers as pistols.

I agree that a weapons permit would be more logical but the current think seems to be that when the founding fathers said ARMS they meant just firearms. This is an area that needs some work in my estimation as knives and clubs were commonly carried as well, especially by the able-bodied seaman when going ashore. Knives were then, and remain, a commonly carried tool. If states and cities want to call it a weapon, it should be covered by the 2nd amendment. I don't see how they get to have it both ways.

[C hawk Glock]

Thank god I don't live in Seattle. Heck I am glad I don't live in King county! LOL.....

[ironmike86]

It is a PISTOL permit, not a weapon permit. Note that Washington State defines both pistols and revolvers as pistols.

I know the difference. I'm just merely stating I can carry many deadly weapons legally . But I can't carry a 2 1/2" fixed knife. But I can carry a 3 1/2 folder. A knife is a tool to me. I cut alot of rope which the fixed knife is better at. But I don't dare carry one around Seattle. The knife laws need to be better IMO. At least the same State wide. Last year there weren't like this. A dangerous knife was a gravity or spring knife, switchblade, fixed blade or over 3 1/2 folder ...everywhere. Some how it changed everywhere but don't know when. I Think it happened sometime when they were trying to make assisted knives illegal??

[Hoganbeg]

I was thinking that a folder, locked open and carried in a sheath might be permissible. It looks like the and operator would allow it but I would want to be certain. You would still be limited in length but would have quicker access.

"D. 'Fixed-blade knife' means any knife, regardless of blade length, with a blade which is permanently open and does not fold, retract or slide into the handle of the knife, and includes any dagger, sword, bayonet, bolo knife, hatchet, axe, straight-edged razor, or razor blade not in a package, dispenser or shaving appliance."

[bzdog]

Mike, perhaps what you were looking at state law. AFAIK, these laws haven't changed recently.

Seattle appears to prefer you defenseless. Luckily state law protects your firearm rights. Unfortunately, it does not do the same for knives.

-john

[bzdog]

I was thinking that a folder, locked open and carried in a sheath might be permissible. It looks like the and operator would allow it but I would want to be certain. You would still be limited in length but would have quicker access.

Why flirt with trouble? Pack your firearm and a good 3.5" folder (or 3" if you ned to go where the limit is 3").

-john