Push daggers in TX

Push daggers in TX

This is a discussion on Push daggers in TX within the Defensive Knives & Other Weapons forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have been unable to get consistent information on the legality of push daggers in Texas. Yes/No/Maybe/Just Don't is the range... It looks to me ...

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  1. #1
    New Member Array ghammers's Avatar
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    Push daggers in TX

    I have been unable to get consistent information on the legality of push daggers in Texas. Yes/No/Maybe/Just Don't is the range...

    It looks to me that with a minimum 'backedge' thinning near the point would be OK, but need more info.

    When training people new to self defense activities, this is definitely the weapon to allow greatest effective application most quickly and naturally.

    Thanks in advance for your feedback!


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    Distinguished Member Array ErnieNWillis's Avatar
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    It is my understanding that (daggers) double edged knives are illegal in Texas.

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    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    It is my understanding that (daggers) double edged knives are illegal in Texas.
    Correct... double edged, buttery fly. Knifes over 5 1/2 inches, tenn tooth picks and switch blades

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    Member Array lordofwyr's Avatar
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    Yep, double edged blades are still illegal in Texas, no matter how long the blade. Regular knives are limited to a cutting edge length of 5 1/2 inches.

    The Texas Legislature has not re-addressed the edged weapons laws in a hundred years it seems, and the laws make absolutely no sense in today's realm of knives.
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    Distinguished Member Array Rexster's Avatar
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    If a "dagger" is prohibited, I would not take a chance on carrying anything that IS a dagger, by name or general type. A push dagger is a push dagger, and I see the word "dagger" in there. The general way the legal winds blow in Texas, it is two sharpened edges that gets one in trouble, regarding the dagger definition, but District Attorneys have broad discretion in Texas. As a private citizen, I would avoid carrying a push dagger in Texas, not only because of the law, but because I strongly disagree that a push dagger is a very effective defensive weapon, compared to other types of blades.

    I do wear an LE badge in Texas, but that does NOT mean what I say/type is legal advice. Personally, I am not likely to arrest for any type of knife unless there are other good reasons to put someone in jail; the weapons charge being an angle used to get a dangerous person off the street. But, you may meet the LEO who will arrest for a mere weapon charge, when there are no other factors present.

    I am inclined to believe that, in the county where I work, the screening DA will reject the weapon charge unless the knife has two sharpened edges. I know for a fact that some other Texas counties are generally less weapon-friendly than my
    location.

    Really, this question should be answered, ahead of time, by the very same criminal-defense lawyer who will be representing you in court if you are charged. Keep his number in your head, or easily accessible to persons whose numbers you do have in your head, because you will not have access to your mobile phone's stored numbers if you are detained.
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    Distinguished Member Array Rexster's Avatar
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    I will add that the original case, that resulted in the case law of two sharpened edges constituting a dagger, involved just a bit of the rear edge being sharpened, and involved a folding knife, in the DFW area. I cannot cite the case, as that bookmark disappeared long ago, when that computer crashed for the final time.

    FWIW, to drift a bit, because Texas prohibits Bowies by name, as a private citizen, I would not carry any knife that advertised itself as having a Bowie-type blade. The same would apply to anything advertised as a dirk.

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    Distinguished Member Array mr.stuart's Avatar
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    I suppose a karambit is ok in Texas? Of legal length of course.
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    I'm wondering about the legality of a "Push-Dagger" in Texas if you hit one of the two sharpened edges on a sanding belt and eliminated one sharpened edge.

    That would seem to technically make it legal because it would then be a PUSH KNIFE as VS a Push Dagger?

    That having been said they are not legal in Pennsylvania either but, I never wanted one anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.stuart View Post
    I suppose a karambit is ok in Texas? Of legal length of course.
    I don't know about the legality, but I sort of doubt I'd want that style blade. Looks like it would be impossible
    to thrust. Here's a link to a pic Karambit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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    I have said it before. I'll say it again. There is a reason why knives have looked pretty much like KNIVES since pre-recorded human history. It is because knives are most effective when they are profiled like knives and not bananas or boomerangs. Just my personal opinion on that. Some will disagree.
    If somebody is coming at me with a kerambit - that would give me an instantaneous advantage.
    Because I know in advance that they can only slash and not ever effectively thrust.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    I don't know about the legality, but I sort of doubt I'd want that style blade. Looks like it would be impossible
    to thrust. Here's a link to a pic Karambit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Karambits are very effective fighting blades, but the training is specific as well as technique. For that reason alone they're not for me.

    Most of my knife training is cutting and locks/take downs. Thrusts, of course, are a part of it, but I want to sever tendons, ligaments and arteries and that's easier to do with a long stroke since they are relatively close to the surface. Keep in mind, this is what I know and have trained, I'm not saying it's the best or only way.

    I do agree though, things never go that well when we very too far from the standard.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

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    Many Moons ago...The first Karambit knifes were originally modeled after a talented custom knife maker won "Best Of Show" in the "Fantasy Knife" category.

    It was a fantasy novelty collectible blade though it was quite well crafted and beautiful.

    Then all of these various assorted custom knife makers were like..OK, now we're all copycats and making these really cool looking Kerambit style bent bladed thingies ~ How daHell do we use it?

    Then shortly thereafter came The Kerambit School Of This Might Possibly Work Knife Fighting.

    I do remember my Knife history.

  13. #13
    Distinguished Member Array Rexster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.stuart View Post
    I suppose a karambit is ok in Texas? Of legal length of course.
    I don't see why not, if it has a single edge. Some worry about the metal ring being interpreted as "knuckles," but one ring is one ring; a karambit's one ring being considered illegal illegal would mean I should worry about wearing my wedding band.
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    Distinguished Member Array Rexster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    I don't know about the legality, but I sort of doubt I'd want that style blade. Looks like it would be impossible
    to thrust.
    A properly-designed fighting Karambit is indeed a thrusting weapon. By far, the majority of the so-called karambits on the market are not properly designed, being merely hook-y blades on one end with rings attached at the other end. If I were to thrust with my forearm bones in line with the direction of the thrust, while holding a Tarani-designed Karambit in the proper grip, the tip is lined-up to thrust into an opponent. I would have to hold a Karambit wrong in order to merely slash with it, carpet-knife style. There is much science behind the use of the Karambit, which is not only a blade, but a hook. Silat practitioners can make serious use of an unsharpened hook!

    Steve Tarani, who lived in Indonesia for a while, in immersion training in the martial arts of that archipelago, knows karambits, and he stresses that a Karambit is a small, concealable back-up weapon, not a primary weapon, whether that primary weapon is a blade or firearm.

    To be clear, I do not claim to be a Karambit expert, just a guy with some working knowledge of the Karambit, from two Steve Tarani seminars and a limited amount of local training in the early 2000s. I do not consider myself a Silat practitioner. I do like a good Karambit folder for some utility tasks such as cutting cordage or straps, and opening the tough plastic packing typical of some electronics packaging. I can execute a one-handed opening, and just might, in desperation, use a Karambit to cut someone off of my firearm, if other methods failed or were not feasible. Most of my limited blade training has been with "straight" blades, however, and if compelled to fight with a blade, by some twist of fate, would rather use a larger "straight" blade. Once again, I am no expert! I mostly attended blade-oriented training to better understand how to survive a blade being used against me. Understanding one's enemies dates back to Sun Tzu, at least.

    I have NO idea this iPad automatically capitalizes "Karambit" some of the time, and not all the time. I have only capitalized Karambit intentionally when starting a sentence. It is simply too much trouble to go back and make all consistent.

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    I've actually never seen or held a karambit. The pic on the Wiki page I linked to shows an opening in the handle and
    suggests that one's finger goes through that hole. I can see where it might me extra difficult to disarm an attacker
    holding a karambit with the methods used for the usual knife, but the karambit guy also might end up with a
    broken finger, as would the holder of a pistol if he had his finger in the trigger guard at the instant he was disarmed.

    I'm not a knife guy, don't carry one because I can't really understand TX's knife laws, would actually like some knife
    training, but the MA guys I work out with are all about H2H, and weapons seem to not be part of their thing.

    Knife Fighting, A practical Course Michael D. Janich has some good basic stuff in it which is especially useful
    to anyone who has some training in the Filippino styles.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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