Baton for the home
This is a discussion on Baton for the home within the Defensive Knives & Other Weapons forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Until you're trained in Close Quarter Combat don't bother buying a collapsible baton. If you feel you need something get a baseball bat, wood or ...
July 22nd, 2012 07:37 PM
Until you're trained in Close Quarter Combat don't bother buying a collapsible baton. If you feel you need something get a baseball bat, wood or aluminum. Don't get real comfortable in the knowledge that you can hold any intruder that enters your house, though. If he has a gun your best defense is holding your hands in the air & pray. The second he sees a baton or bat he'll play his trump card & a gun trumps any CQC weapon.
I can see your distaste for shooting what could be an unarmed intruder, especially if your state doesn't have the Castle Doctrine. The best thing for you & your family's safety is a gun - any kind is better than nothing. I won't give you the standard mantra to shoot to wound. Wrong! Whichever you decide on train on & practice, practice, practice.
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July 22nd, 2012 07:37 PM
July 22nd, 2012 07:48 PM
Google Modern Arnis of try this url Welcome to Official Modern Arnis Remy P. Presas International Organization (MARPPIO) and get some training in H2H
using rattan canes as weapons. It isn't quick and easy but worth the effort.
The training will be readily translatable to knife fighting as well, and it has many elements of other
arts built into it; locks, holds, throws.
A bedroom is a bit of a confined space so a bo-staf won't work well but getting some training
in use of one might help you too.
The big problem with impact weapons, or any weapon, is your opponent can oftentimes get them
from you and use them against you. That is true for any weapon if they get close enough.
If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
July 22nd, 2012 08:22 PM
Wisdom and past middle age!
I am new here, and would like to offer this as a negative reason to the baton idea!
Originally Posted by skeetsak
I have been married to the same wonderful lady for the past 46 years, and she has come to this position!
I quote her! " I do not want to come that close to anyone that is trying to hurt me"! Her weapon of choice, for a long time, was a large baseball bat at the head of the bed!
In todays world, there are many different kinds of deterrents, with he baseball bat or baton being close to the bottom of the list.
So, after much soul searching, she and I have obtained our concealed permits, and have the opportunity to carry one of the more than half dozen handguns that we own.
My wife's position is still not to remove the "perp(s)" from the earth, but to make it far from likely, with a well aimed shot, that he(she) would not be able to procreate when, and if, the perp would be released from lock-up.
Just for reference. My wife has been a competetive shooter, we have both hunted for many years, and own a dozen or so items that go bang!
Ages are classified, but since we are both retired, you get the picture. I will not offer where any of the items might be located in our home, but any of them require a lot less effort, and much more immediate responses than a bat or baton.
When was the last time you wondered if a person in front of you in a line somewhere was carrying a concealed piece of wood? Stay safe!
July 22nd, 2012 10:10 PM
Originally Posted by Grandpagus
And that's how you do that.
"The superior man, when resting in safety, does not forget that danger may come." ~ Confucius
July 23rd, 2012 02:17 AM
If you're opposed to using lethal force to defend you and your family during a home invasion, a baseball bat and a prayer would be your best bet. And much cheaper than buying a baton.
Of course, you realize that how you use the baseball bat and/or baton, can easily be considered a deadly weapon. So if you end up beating a guy to death, It would probably be much easier, and safer to shoot them than going hands on and risk getting beaten to death with your own bat or baton.
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
July 23rd, 2012 02:53 AM
To the OP:
I respect your choice of less than lethal force vs a firearm but may I ask if you have ever shot a gun before? I wont ask if you have any personal negative experiences with guns as it is not my business but if you do not it cant hurt to at least take a basic pistol class ans trip to a range to at least try shooting. Guns in the hands of reaponsible educated people shouldnt be feared.
If I may at the very least offer these scenarios, what if a home invader is armed and your best escape route is blocked? What if they are on any number of hard narcotics or hallocienagens or have a severe mental disorder such as bipolar schitzophrenea? An average home invader MIGHT retreat at the sight of resistance but someone who enters a home they know is occupied and/or is under the influence probably has nothing to lose. Will you really bet your family on a static peice of metal?
As far as a good law enforcemenf quality batton. Many distributors of LEO equipment will only sell such items to LEOs and Security Officers with thier company approval (often a purchase order with company letterhead). That said I wouldnt trust my safety to a piece of junk batton sold at a army surplus store.
I have nothing against the idea of less than lethal force but I also dont believe in non-lethal force. Anything can be used as a weapon and anything can kill. A fight with an impact weapon can lead to death so why take the chance of being up close and personal?
"The thing about quotes on the internet is that you can not confirm their validity."
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky. dangerous animals."
July 23rd, 2012 11:19 AM
I know you've heard the saying "Don't bring a knife to a gun fight" at some point in the past. Well, "Don't bring a stick to a gun fight" applies as well.
If someone armed with a gun enters your home a oh-dark-thirty and your response is to come at him with a stick, you're going to have a VERY bad night. In fact, even the bad guy doesn't have a gun, if you aren't properly trained in the use of impact weapons you may have a bad night. I'm not a UFC caliber fighter or anything, but I'll guess that about 2/3 of the time I'd manage to take a baton from an untrained person and use it against them.
If you really don't want a gun take a look at this:
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July 23rd, 2012 11:48 AM
I'm obviously on the pro-gun for home defense side of this fence, but if you don't want one you don't want one. Hit your local Goodwill; mine has tee ball bats for about two bucks each. Buy three or four and stash them around the house. Not as good as a gun, but magnitudes more effective than a stern look at someone waltzing into your house.
July 23rd, 2012 12:05 PM
I'd recommend using a stick (or a baton) only if you've had training -- not just in a weekend course, but over years. Learn what a stick can and cannot do, the tactics and strategies that come with it. Then you can decide what sort of stick you need. Of course, at that point you wouldn't be asking here. Most people in this thread are not in a position to advise you on stickfighting.
Sure, you need training with guns, too, but you become far more powerful in far less time. A small amount of training goes a long way with the equipment. However, with sticks and knives, the training matters far, far more, and that's why some of the discussion here amuses me. You're basically talking about picking up a martial art and sticking to it (no pun intended) for years, training for several hours per week. Do you have that level of commitment? Frequently people who post here asking about the best sticks/fighting knives to get (or "stabbing vs slashing") have no idea what they're talking about.
So unless there are circumstances that force you to rely on the stick as your primary home defense weapon, I wouldn't do it without a whole lot of training. And if you have training, you wouldn't be posting here.
July 23rd, 2012 12:10 PM
Putting on my firesuit, but you've got a Pit in your house and are worried about someone accidentally hurting themselves with a gun?
Originally Posted by skeetsak
Making your house a "gun-free zone" is just like doing that with your business. If the dude breaking into your house didn't respect your door, he's not going to respect your gun rules, and so the only gun in your house WILL be dangerous because it's in the other guy's hand.
As far as a baton... it takes more training to use it effectively, retention is even more an issue than with a gun, depending on your jurisdiction may be considered lethal force even if using lower-level techniques, and unless you're Jackie Chan, it's not really good in a 1 v many situation. Plus, who wants to bring a stick to a gunfight?
Still, if the stick is your choice, forget a baton - get a brand-name baseball bat. The dog is probably your best defense anyhow.
Edit: To add to what MB100 says - I've got a small bit of baton training way back in the day (DEFINITELY not enough to consider myself a competent martial artist), and what it taught me is that a stick has some good uses in specific situations - restraint, compliance, crowd control - but it is way in the back of my list of what I'd want in my hands during a potentially lethal situation... and every home invasion is potentially lethal.
July 23rd, 2012 11:51 PM
Not a good scenario..anyway you look at it. Most home invasions are done by more than one person and they usually are armed with guns. Therefore you don`t go to a gunfight with a stick,you`ll be dead. The dog can only alert you of something outside and that`s it. Once they`re in the house "Bang,Bang",No more dog. And now you have multiple perps in your house with guns and you have a stick. NO win for you there. Please get over your gun fear,get some therapy and most important..get a gun and some Training. Other than that a coupla Claymores and some grenades is your only other way. But they do make a mess. Good Luck.
July 24th, 2012 12:13 AM
First a Baseball bat or baton is not a less than lethal option, both are considered deadly weapons.
I would suggest a home security system with a panic button, then a taser and pepper spray, then what ever large heavy object that you have handy. If you don't want to hurt someone then don't defend yourself and pray that the men in blue get there in time.
One of the people I respect most is a true pacifist (He led my to Christ) and he has lived in some very dangerous places with nothing but the Grace of God protecting him so I believe that prayer works.
The choice is yours, make it and learn to live with it
Sometimes I wonder who the old man in the mirror is....
Lord, Grant me a good sword and no need to use it.
July 24th, 2012 01:02 AM
The above is worth quoting. The OP really doesn't need us telling him to "get over his fear." Maybe he has difficult circumstances that we're not aware of, that he cannot discuss in public. He's probably new to this forum, and not a "gun person." Let's be welcoming, and perhaps let's help him overcome his hesitation about learning to use a gun and to keep a firearm for home defense. Let's help him get into guns safely -- from what little I can tell, the OP seems to be concerned with the safety issue. Well, guys, how about it? Can a firearm be handled and kept safely?
Originally Posted by ctr
July 24th, 2012 02:53 PM
To me personaly, it is all about stopping the threat effetively in the shortest amount of time. The likelyhood to disable an opponent with a baton is kinda minimal. Even a blow to the head does not guarantee that he/she won't be able to still harm you. Usually, it will takes multiple hits, which means the fight that takes place will last longer. The longer the fight, the more likely it is that something will go wrong for you (murphy's law comes to mind).
I know that a shotgun is a firearm, but think about the possibility to use less then lethal ammuntion like bean bags. What if the bad guy is one hell of a streetfighter? A martial art of some sort is just as good as the person who uses it, and all of them take a lifetime to really master them. What about age? You may be young, dynamic, powerfull and flexible yet, but trust me, it's not going to be that way forever (don't ask me how I know). And don't forget that your house is full of weapons that the bad guy can use, even if he came unarmed. A glass, a kitchen knife, even a fork or spoon can be deadly. A broken picture frame produces sharp objects, chairs, heavy decorations, pretty much everything can be used against you. And you still have to get close enough to hit him, and hit him right.
Just get a heavy door with a sturdy lock or two for your bedroom, and make sure your cell phone has service there, and lock yourself in. It may not give you the best of feelings, but t certainly is safer then to confront the bad guy (or maybe even guys) armed with nothing but a stick and adrenaline.
Just my 2 cents.
July 24th, 2012 03:48 PM
Many Police supply businesses will not sell any ASP type expandable baton unless the order is placed on valid LEO Letterhead or you provide proof that you are presently baton certified.
Just get a nice ASH replacement AX Handle at the hardware store and save yourself some effort.
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