This is a discussion on Baton for the home within the Defensive Knives & Other Weapons forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by QKShooter Many Police supply businesses will not sell any ASP type expandable baton unless the order is placed on valid LEO Letterhead ...
I carry a ASB baton 32" for work. I have deployed this tool before. On a human target. Many LEO's will agree with me............it isnt that great.
I was fueling my vehicle at a gas station and some punk decided to approach me. He asked me for $10, which i did not have on me. After refusal he became irrate and swung at me. which did not hit because i simply moved. A woman at the pump next to me threw herself on the fire when she yelled "HEY! YOU CANT DO THAT!" which turned his full attention to her, causing him to lunge in her general direction.
In order to distract him, i deployed my issued collapsible baton and shouted at him. He re-engaged me with another swing, which was easily dodged *he was a bit overweight and very out of breath by this point*. I swung my baton at his outer thigh with everything i had. Which had no effect. I swung at the same spot, again , and again, and again with little to no results. All the time he was attempting to smash my face to bits. So i did what any sane person would do and resorted to my OC spray and hosed him. THAT worked. He dropped like a sac o potatoes , crying, coughing, all the mucus membranes he had flared up, eyes swelled up. He was done..
But the baton Is not that effective unless used on vital parts of the body, Mainly the head. But a headshot is VERY lethal , so you must back up a step or two and go after limbs, wrists, elbows, knees etc. However this itself has small effect on someone who is full of adrenaline and rage.
I suggest either getting some pepper spray, a taser or a gun. Thats your best bet, especially if someone is IN your home. I would chose gun for that.
I have to ask...are you an actual LEO? I don't advocate a baton for home defense, but the baton is far from useless! If used correctly in your situation, with proper training you should have been able to incapacitate the "punk"! Again, if trained, you should have been able to take out the use of his arms or legs to the point of immobilizing him. I carry a 21" Manonock(sp) baton and view it as a very versatile tool!
I keep seeing recommendations for a baseball bat and I'm here to tell you that it is not that good as a weapon. I would use one in a pinch, but if I had to use a baton I would prefer a simple hardwood stick about 1.5" in diameter and about 26"-28" long. A bat is designed for swinging in a big circular arc; just the kind of strike that is easiest to counter. It is unbalanced, harder to use with two hands, and not good for confined spaces. As others have noted, it is considered a deadly weapon in most places; another reason to consider a gun.
Regarding police baton tactics, they are mostly designed to protect the department from excessive force charges. That results in the baton being limited mostly to pain compliance and restraint holds. They are denied the most effective techniques.
Again, perimeter security, awareness, and pepper gel are your best options if you are against firearms.
As has been said, effective use of the baton requires some longer term training based on valid martial arts techniques. If you are serious you will get some hand-to-hand combat training. If you can't afford it, start saving up for it. Consider what skills you might have to offer in trade or barter.
So the OP needs years of training before ever considering a baton? How does this make any sense?
If I had the choice of fighting somebody who was unarmed or fighting someone who had a bat or a baton, I would take the unarmed guy every time.
It doesn't seem that complicated.
If the BG gets past the OP's pitbull, more than likely he is armed. If this was me, I would prefer to have some type of firearm in my hand.
Baton hell..... give me a Louisville slugger!
While something is always better than nothing, still some choices are better than others. The scenario is an intruder in one's home, presumably threatening the occupants. Also, years of training would certainly be better, but I would say weeks to months, depending on the dedication of the individual and the number of hours per week available for training. It's not just a matter of the baton itself.
1. A baton requires that you get close to the enemy. That increases the chances you will be injured.
2. An untrained person using a baton will tend to use it as a simple club which robs much of its effectiveness.
3. As the example of the incident in the gas station above the collapsible baton was ineffective when employed using POST techniques. That technique, incidentally, is designed to either convince the assailant to desist through the pain of the strike or, to induce a cramp dropping him to the ground or at least limiting his mobility. With respect for the poster, I would say he was too focused on his weapon. The assailant should never have had the opportunity to throw a third punch. The point is, the assailant took multiple strikes with a collapsible baton and was still combative.
4.Without training you will not have the conditioned responses to pick the proper sequence of targets [very important] or the best way to use the baton against those targets to disable the attacker.
5. An untrained user will focus on using only the weapon in his hand while ignoring the other natural weapons available. This, at the very least, increases the time between deliverable strikes, and the assailant will know that the next strike will come from the baton and the same hand. This increases his ability to avoid or counter your strike.
6. Without the training it becomes only a little better than brandishing.
7. An aggressive attacker is just as likely to believe he can avoid a disabling blow from you and disarm you before you can get in a second strike, Without training, he is likely right. He is now armed with a lethal weapon! Are you prepared to defend yourself empty handed against a baton wielding attacker? (This goes back to point #1.)
Food for thought.
Thanks for all the feed back guys and gals. Thanks for all the in depth feedback. I realize now that a baton or bat may not be the best option for me.
I will take all your advice and check my perimeter. Are there any links you can give me for perimeter checks and home security?
Im considering pepper gel and a tazer gun at this point. my concern with sprays is... spraying my dog. My concern with a tazer gun is cost.
can you guys give me some links on quality pepper streams or tazer guns that might be more easily affordable?
If you don't want a gun. then an impact weapon is better than no weapon. But no need to go all tactical with a baton... just go the local sports equiipment store and get an aluminum softball bat. Who isn't familiar with the grip and balance of a softball bat? Get a couple, then pre-position them in your home. Then if confronted with a home invader, just swing for the fences... swing high, swing low; just keep swinging until there is no more threat. No need for training, just swing away!
Not sure about the collapsible batons, but the old fashion variety made of wood can crack a skull.
Anyway, I feel like I'm repeating myself. Training, training, training. Training over equipment.
A baton or a baseball bat simply is not adequate or sufficient.
OP, why are you artificially restricting yourself to a baton?
(Side Note: Yes, I have been through a very thorough professional baton class, taught by an ASP-certified instructor. I have a police-grade baton, I am trained in its use, I know how to use it, and I would never ever consider it for a home defense weapon.)