Pepper spray vs. cn/cs tear gas.

Pepper spray vs. cn/cs tear gas.

This is a discussion on Pepper spray vs. cn/cs tear gas. within the Defensive Knives & Other Weapons forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Is there any definitive guide to the effectiveness of tear gas and peeper spray. I have a spitfire pepper spray and would use it for ...

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Thread: Pepper spray vs. cn/cs tear gas.

  1. #1
    Member Array Bryan's Avatar
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    Pepper spray vs. cn/cs tear gas.

    Is there any definitive guide to the effectiveness of tear gas and peeper spray. I have a spitfire pepper spray and would use it for dogs while cycling and when i can't CCW. I also know that if the military tear gas is used at full strength it will cause suffocation by searing the lungs. There seems to be great claims of incapacitation buy defence spray companies(just like taser advertisements). In the end it should be at least useful for making an attacker lose some of his sight. I heard recently that bear spray works only because the bear has his sense of smell hardwired into his brain thus causing substantial pain. It might not be the same for humans.
    -Diplomacy: The art of saying nice dogie until you can find a rock.
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  2. #2
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    ....I don't know of any guides, other than what the companies publish with their product, but I've gotten gassed during chem warfare training while in the USAF and I've gotten a shot of OC (pepper spray) during my LE training....while I was giving commands during a force-on-force scenario...and got hit down the throat with it.

    The OC just plain sucks....I'd rather not get sprayed with the stuff again. Bear in mind that OC, CS, and/or CN does not affect everyone the same way. Some folks might go immediately into the fetal position crying for their mother after getting a blast of it in the face, while others will fight through it and try to stick the canister up that part of the user where the sun don't shine. There's the danger of cross-contamination (the user gets hit with it thanks to wind), it may not work on very hyped up or drugged out folks, etc.....in short, don't believe all of the hype.
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  3. #3
    VIP Member Array KenpoTex's Avatar
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    I agree with srfl, OC sucks (that stuff burns like a M***erF***er!!!). When I got certified with my current job to carry OC, I had to take a 3-second burst to both eyes...did I mention that it sucked. Really though, I'm glad I did it because I now understand exactly what it feels like. That's why I'm not so crazy about using for defense. Even though it was very unpleasant, it didn't have enough of an effect on me that I couldn't continue the fight. I did mention that it sucked didn't I?

    Paul Gomez, one of the moderators at TPI wrote this article about various sprays (mostly the OC variety). You have to register to read it but that only takes a minute and it's well worth the effort. He does a break-down of the meanings of all the nomenclature, he ranks the different brands in terms of "hotness," etc.

    http://www.totalprotectioninteractiv...ighlight=Spray
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  4. #4
    Senior Member Array CombatEffective's Avatar
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    Another problem with OC is that if you use it there is a good chance that you'll get contaminated yourself, which just ain't fun.
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  5. #5
    Member Array Tros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan View Post
    Is there any definitive guide to the effectiveness of tear gas and peeper spray. I have a spitfire pepper spray and would use it for dogs while cycling and when i can't CCW. I also know that if the military tear gas is used at full strength it will cause suffocation by searing the lungs. There seems to be great claims of incapacitation buy defence spray companies(just like taser advertisements). In the end it should be at least useful for making an attacker lose some of his sight. I heard recently that bear spray works only because the bear has his sense of smell hardwired into his brain thus causing substantial pain. It might not be the same for humans.
    IMO there is no better pepper spray than what DPS makes. It seems to be some mean stuff. All of my research and first hand experiences prove to me that DPS is the real deal.

    As mentioned before, people respond differently to different products and types of products. The fact of the matter is that the stuff on the market right now works for most people, but not all. It's a chance you take, of course.

    Good luck finding the information you are seeking. I hope you find an answer for your questions.
    Beretta 92FS

  6. #6
    Member Array Bryan's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info there were some misconceptions I had about the cn/cs being better then pepper spray. As with other non-lethal option there is not as much garantie the BG will stop or be significantly impaired. I guess the best option is still to give the BG anemia through a Lead sedative. Also I noticed that the campus has blue lighted emergency phones every 10 yards or so. They have fixed all of them in the last year but it makes no difference if your laying in a pool of your own blood.
    -Diplomacy: The art of saying nice dogie until you can find a rock.
    -The truth is a three edged sword.
    -Your brain is your primary weapon everything else is just a tool.
    -When the only tool you have is a hammer then everything starts to look like a nail.

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array Superhouse 15's Avatar
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    OC

    When I worked at a fire station that ran EMS responses to the County jail, I met a Corrections Officer who was immune to OC. I myself am not and wouldn't have believed it had I not seen it firsthand. I was barely able to treat the patient, who was also affected, while the CO laughed at us. The inmate/patient was also out of the fight completely. I was exposed to CS and CN sprays prior with only minor eye watering and discomfort. I could still have fought, although at a reduced capacity. With the OC, I was lucky to function and that was just from the overspray. The lesson learned is that different folks have different responses to all the sprays so it's best to have a plan B. B for big concealed pistol (or 2).

  8. #8
    Member Array AmericanCCW's Avatar
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    OC pepper spray is a non-lethal defensive option some people should consider. It's not meant to be the most effective, but it's a non-lethal option for many people who otherwise don't have the training or capability for more effective methods for whatever reason. Data suggests 84% effectiveness. We've all seen hardcore warriors on the Internet videos getting sprayed in the face and continuing the fight for the next five minutes.

    Unarmed defense is great, too, if you're really good. But for a 65-year old female, 100 lbs, 5'2" tall for example who can benchpress 25 lbs and doesn't have time to go to the dojo three times a week, it's something to look at.

    It's also a good thing for very capable security guards to have, too. In the violence escalation hierarchy (of course you need to have de-escalation strategies) OC pepper spray fits in there as an option, too.

    Selection of a good manufacturer is key, too. There are some alternatives out there, and Fox Labs is one good outfit.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Array LoveLeather's Avatar
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    Check out Freeze +p..it's what the LASD uses..it is a combination of OC and CS so if someone is less susceptibleto one, the other helps...I keep one in my car and clothing permitting, one in my jacket...it's the 2 oz size as I don't have much faith in thse key chain models...I got mine at defensedevices.com they have the best price that I have seen for them....

    http://www.defensedevices.com/freeze...per-spray.html

  10. #10
    Member Array Leadslinger's Avatar
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    I totally agree with some of the others ......

    OC SUCKS.

    I've been exposed to CN , CS , and OC
    While none of it is pleasant.. The OC got my attention quick.
    Initial training with CN & CS was to spray the BG in the upper chest and the "fumes" would incapcitate him. The OC was direct contact with the eyes and face. I feel OC is definately more effective.... HOWEVER, I have used OC approx.. 100-150 times. Some BGs it shuts down immediately and some ... NADA
    80 % effective is probably a fair number, from my experience.
    BG under the effect of intoxicants.. number falls to 50/50 maybe.
    Just for general FYI ... I don't carry OC as a CCW.
    I still prefer an ASP as a less than lethal.
    I thing alot of folks don't consider ...... Its not always easy to hit someone directly in the eyes (or forehead) when they are charging at you combat speed with bad intentions. Also when I said 80% effective (for me) that doesn't mean ... "1 squirt" = aggression ends. Most of the time the BG will continue aggressive behavior for several (longgggggg) minutes and most likely you will have to go "Hands On", often being contaminated yourself. There is a big difference going through training for OC, CS, & CN... Your calm (although a little nervous), you get sprayed .. and then do whatever is necessary to complete the training and decontaminating yourself . That's alot different from a BG who is pissed and might have homicidal intent. I think alot of LEOs are shocked the 1st time they spray a BG and he does'nt cease his actions immediately.

    Anyway .. Just some things to consider.
    Last edited by Leadslinger; October 26th, 2006 at 10:15 AM.
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  11. #11
    Distinguished Member Array AnimalKracker's Avatar
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    Guys this is a very interesting thread. Having no experience myself with OC, I thought it would be more effective than the 80 some odd percent. I went into the Ark. Nat. Guard back in 1974, all the Guard members during boot camp had to do a week of riot control training. We were exposed to CS in many different ways that week. Oh boy what fun we had. But as some of y'all have posted it effects some more than others. It wasn't nice but it didn't bother me as much as some of the others. Now this new pepper spray I'm hearing that it might not stop someone in their tracks. I can't imagine taking a shot of that in the eyes. I do understand about cross contamination, it can happen several ways. I have heard of a guy that put one of the key chain sized ones in his pocket, and some how had it to discharge, Let's just say it was very uncomfortable and it blistered him some. Not having seen it I can't say how true it is. But that story gives me pause about how I'd carry any if I ever got any.

  12. #12
    New Member Array Cynic1's Avatar
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    OC is great but you need to get enough of the stuff in someones eyes/mouth. Ive been twice attacked by several assailants, and when I pulled back after strikes/kicks and deployed OC, many attackers saw what was coming and covered their faces etc.(scumbags who have been sprayed before.Hell, I dont know what hasnt been done by/to them before..)

    So the effect? Surprised and scattered, basically. I was able to use my advantage , and drop some of them, rest took off running.

    Point is, they didnt immobilize, even though I sprayed at them for several seconds. You have to train in the use of OC, be accurate enough and preferably surprise your attacker. Otherwise the effect is a lot smaller.
    I dont play well with others

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