What justify the cost?

[Ben Hennessy]

I posted a thread like this on another forum and was hoping to also get some help here from my friends. After going to a gun show yesterday, I decided to add a knife to my every day carry rig. Never spending more than 20 bucks on a knife before in my life, I know now I'll need to spend much more. One of the tables I stopped at yesterday was a man selling and demonstrating knives sharpeners. He stated he was a Master Sharpener ( if that is a real title). He bragged a little how good stainless 154 was due to it Rockwell testing ( 56-59 ) on its blade. Well I started my career as a machinist so I know a little about heat treating and Rockwell testing. 56-59 is hard. After checking the web last night to purchase a knife in stainless 154 I notice other knives in a different grade of stainless with a Rockwell testing just as high. So here is my question to you all who know about a good knife. Is it the grade of stainless, the hardness of the blade that justify the pricey cost of a good knife. I'm sure some will say both but please explain why, I'm trying to learn something. Thank You for any help you can give me.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[retsupt99]

but I have a Kershaw/Ken Onion, assisted opening knife...it's great...
Was around $70-90...don't remember right now...

I hope you can 'cut' yourself a great deal...OH...that's bad...

Stay safe!

ret

[goawayfarm]

Don't be afraid to spend a little money. A good knife can be your best friend & constant companion.

As for hardness, hard is OK....but it becomes a pain in the you know where, when it needs to be sharpened.

Stick with good name brands & you should be okay......

Some good brands that are still affordable are:
Buck
Spyderco
Kershaw
Cold Steel

There are a bunch of others & I don't want to short change them. Check them out at a gun show, they usually have a wide selection. Also don't be afraid to ask people what they like in a knife.

You can also check Ebay, that is one of the few places I use for getting knives.

You'll probably find that you will end up carrying a knife ALL the time. I usually have 2-4 on me at any one time & I'm NEVER without at least one.

[falcon1]

At one time, Columbia River Knife and Tool (CRKT) knives were considered to be great value for the money...don't know if that is still true or not?

[P95Carry]

Without going into metallurgy - and I agree that the blade makers we usually mention here do pretty well - a blade is IMO always a compromize.

Strength, taking a good edge and keeping that edge. Too hard can = brittle and so it can break. Too soft and of course the reverse is true. The word ''tough'' is appropriate.

It is not just the metal alloy choice either - much will depend on getting the heat treatment right. Hardening but ..... pulling back a bit to a good temper. Not easy.

I am old school and do believe that some of the best blades are probably good carbon steel - certainly re edge performance. I know this is the case with my old steel kitchen knives.

Just now and again you can luck out on cheapie import knives - a few can be great value. Generally reasonable quality costs and I favor for myself, Buck, Spyderco and Kershaw (genuine Onion Kershaw's).

Set a budget of between $50 and $100 and you will have some good options.

[Ben Hennessy]

P95Carry I'm glad you posted to my thread because all my thoughts on this started with a knife you sold to Ti Carry. I was with Ti Carry yesterday at a gun show. We were both watching this Master Sharpener sharppen other peoples knives but when Ti Carry offered his knife the man stated this doesn't need sharppening, Its a Benchmade with a stainless 154 blade. And then he went into detail on hardness of a blade and what a great deal Ti Carry got on this knife. Thats when I decided I need a better quality knife than the cheappies I usually buy but checking out the web sites leaves me confused. I'll have to say though I do like the Ken Onion design.

[P95Carry]

Ben - I realize I forgot in my post to include Benchmade - silly me - they deserve to be in with the good choices, naturally.

Yes, I like em all and have to stop myself adding knives like I can flashlights!!! So many choices.

I do agree the Ken Onion designs have some great features and my daily carry is the diminutive Scallion - which I opted to have as daily carry over others simply because smaller and lighter.

I could have carried the Benchmade but had kept that back for keeping in a backpack etc - it's a bit heavier - but in the end had not used it enough to justify keeping. I used to carry my Buck Mayo TNT but again, a tad large for daily use.

This is the Scallion - it is holding edge very well over many months.

[artz]

Ben.... Benchmade is a good company to go with and they are moderately priced. I have a few of them. Benchmade Activator (Snody) fixed blade, model#192 Bird and trout, model# 160 tetherknife, and a Griptillian folder, which I have been carrying about 5 years now. Enjoy !!!

[dr_cmg]

At one time, Columbia River Knife and Tool (CRKT) knives were considered to be great value for the money...don't know if that is still true or not?

I have several CRKT knives and I like everyone of them. I have been carrying a Columbia River Blade Lock for several months now and it has performed very well for me. I also like Kershaw's a great deal.

[LoveLeather]

Check out the Camillus Heat....great knife and good prices on ebay.

[HotGuns]

Is it the grade of stainless, the hardness of the blade that justify the pricey cost of a good knife. I'm sure some will say both but please explain why, I'm trying to learn something. Thank You for any help you can give me.

P95 hit it with the metallurgy.

What "justifys" the cost of a knife is due to several factors. Metallurgy is but one of them. Generally, the more time a manufacture has in a knife the more it will cost. Like many products, the "name" of a knife has to do with its cost also.

The thing about knives though...is how it appeals to you. If you like the way it looks and feels, you may be willing to pay a bit more. Its a subjective thing, what you may think looks great another guy may hate.

Keep in mind though, that the more heat treatable a stainless knife is, the more carbon it will have in it, the less "stainless" it will be, meaning that it can and will rust and it does require a certain amount of care. Also, the "harder" a knife is on the Rockwell scale, the harder it will be to sharpen.

Personally, I'd rather have a knife that was a 55 or 56 than one that is a 59. A good tap is a 59 and you know how easily they can break.A 55 on the other hand, wont be near as brittle and be a whole lot easier to sharpen.

[Ben Hennessy]

HotGuns great explanation. And yes I know all about taps. I drilled and tapped so many holes in my life I'm glad I do not do that kind of work anymore. And I broken hunreds of tap in the hole because I didn't add enough oil to my work. But I thought the 56-59 Rockwell was so that you didn't have to sharppen the knife hardly ever. But that kind of hardness does seem to defeat the purpose of a knife you can trust. You do not want your blade to break. I think I'm going to buy a Kershaw Ken Onion in the Leek model. On Ebay for $35. Does that sound like a good deal?

[ELCruisr]

Most of the brands named are good blades. P95 was right in that all blades are a compromise. Stainless knife blades are a bit of a misnomer as to take a temper they must have enough carbon to rust if abused. When I made knives I used to match metal to the buyers desires.

O1 can make a knife easy to sharpen to a razor edge, very tough, great field knife and guarantee it will rust easy and turn brown. You can play some pretty good games with heat treating like hard edge, soft spine. Most early Randalls where 01.

D2, one of my favorites, is a near stainless with some chromium. Hard to sharpen but takes a great edge with patience and keeps it a long time. Can be more brittle and needs to have proper blade design. Miserable to grind compared to most carbon steels.

154 CM and ATS 34 are good general service stainless steels. A better choice for most over 440 C. One thing with stainless is it's harder to sharpen well than a plain carbon steel knife and may not hold it's edge as long. It will also not be as tough or shock resistant as something like O1.

There are many other good steels.

Everything is a trade off. Price is usually a reflection of quality of materials, quality of work and reputation. Try comparing an old Al-Mar to a Buck and you'll see why the Al-Mar was so much more. But then if I'm going to use it for daily ranch chores and wear it out in a few years the Bucks just the ticket. If I might defend myself with it I carry my own!

[HotGuns]

think I'm going to buy a Kershaw Ken Onion in the Leek model. On Ebay for $35. Does that sound like a good deal?

Good enough. I've got one and I love it.
Most people think it s a switchblade when I whip it out.

[QKShooter]

There are so many truly great knife steels "out there"
My last knife purchase was AUS-8A - Very NICE!
440C is very popular - also in Stainless 440V & ATS-34 -
I believe Spyderco is now using ATS-55 Stainless.
There is J-2 and others. Some more "exotic" & less common.

I guess all would have slightly different properties when hardened to the same Rockwell #.
One would be slightly more impact resistant & one would be slightly more stain resistant - one would hold edge slightly longer - one would sharpen a bit easier.
One slightly more or less brittle...For like a fillet knife...more stain/rust resistance & greater flex might be more desired.
You get the picture.

Usually most Quality knife makers try to use the Stainless alloy best suited for the particular style, blade thickness, usage, etc. knives that they are making.

The most important thing is that they be heat treated properly AKA correctly hardened & tempered.

Any of the top name knife manufacturers would not last very long if they produced knives from garbage steel.

For most practical purposes - I think you are pretty safe buying a knife from any of the top brand makers regardless if they are making a particular knife in say....440-C or ATS-34.

I don't think there is one perfect knife steel for every knife application.