PUSH DAGGER as a defensive blade?

This is a discussion on PUSH DAGGER as a defensive blade? within the Defensive Knives & Other Weapons forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; so i haven't been carrying a knife regularly since i got my CHL. and when i do it's usually a very small folder like the ...

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Thread: PUSH DAGGER as a defensive blade?

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array technomonster's Avatar
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    PUSH DAGGER as a defensive blade?

    so i haven't been carrying a knife regularly since i got my CHL. and when i do it's usually a very small folder like the 2" Swiss army type knife or a simple box cutter type knife. the former being really slow to open both lacking the strength needed to be deployed as a weapon.

    I'm thinking about getting a small push dagger to carry on my weak side, so far my thoughts are:

    pros, fixed blade and T handle is shorter and easier to hide and faster to bring to action, i have no knife fighting skills so a push dagger will be easier to use since punching is pretty instructive. so if someone grabs me, especially my strong arm or gun i could use a blade to persuade them to let go.

    cons, it`s pretty much useless as a utility tool, and as such will always be viewed as a weapon (i think in some states they are illegal.)

    i would still have a small knife on my key chain for utility, the spade will be for defense purposes only.

    anyone here carry one? is it legal where you live?

    question for those who are skilled in knife fighting: how practical is such a blade as a defensive weapon? what are your thoughts on those composite ones? and how about the BESH WEDGE profiled ones?
    Last edited by technomonster; August 8th, 2013 at 04:58 AM.
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    New Member Array twinboysdad's Avatar
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    For a purely combat knife, very few are better. Natural arm alignment and hard to disarm. Mpretty useless for anything else. If you need one then I suggest AIWB

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    Distinguished Member Array Jaeger's Avatar
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    Most are not long enough to penetrate vitals, and scarcely long enough to split arteries, but it is one hell of an advantage in a hand to hand fight if the perpetrator does not have a weapon. It's nearly impossible to be disarmed without using a wrist lock. Just having one in your hand should be enough to dissuade any non-psychotic attacker that its a fight he doesn't want to have. I carry one occasionally, but it is more of a last ditch thing for me.

    That said, even if its legal to carry you are almost automatically going to be charged with a crime if you use one. Just read the paper to see who gets stabbed often. You are going to be in the company of hardened criminals using a knife to defend yourself, and you have to consider that. It is considered by modern society to be a thug's weapon, even if we don't see it that way. You are almost better off shooting someone than you are cutting them.
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    Too bad that you are living in Ohio because you are going to have an extremely difficult time making the legal argument that you have a Push Dagger on your person and that you are not carrying it as a Deadly Weapon and that your Push Dagger is a utilitarian tool and not a deadly weapon.

    Know your local/State knife laws! - as mixed up as they are in OHIO.
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    Member Array tet4's Avatar
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    Maybe OC spray would be a better option. :)

    I can't decide whether to get on my soap box or not, so I'll just say this for right now - most people are kidding themselves if they think they can use a knife, any knife, effectively as a self defense weapon.

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    VIP Member Array maxwell97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tet4 View Post
    Maybe OC spray would be a better option. :)

    I can't decide whether to get on my soap box or not, so I'll just say this for right now - most people are kidding themselves if they think they can use a knife, any knife, effectively as a self defense weapon.
    As a primary, certainly not. As a backup last-ditch option, it's better than a fist.
    "Yet this government never of itself furthered any enterprise, but by the alacrity with which it got out of the way... The character inherent in the American people has done all that has been accomplished; and it would have done somewhat more, if the government had not sometimes got in its way."

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    Member Array RockingGlock32's Avatar
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    I carry a decent sized fixed blade. About 4" blade. But I live in the somewhat free state of Florida. However it can be used as a prybar if needed and does a lot of cutting of boxes and such even drywall if needed for work. So I can argue it isnt strictly a weapon.

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    VIP Member Array Taurahe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tet4 View Post
    Maybe OC spray would be a better option. :)

    I can't decide whether to get on my soap box or not, so I'll just say this for right now - most people are kidding themselves if they think they can use a knife, any knife, effectively as a self defense weapon.
    This here.... IMO< unless you are trained, practice regularly, and practice properly, a defensive knife is a last ditch effort at best. I do not condemn anyone for carrying one, I often carry two... but both are last ditch oprions when all else has failed. I would not hesitate to defend myself with one, but it is by no means my first choice,.... for those who ARE trained in knife skills, I envy you greatly
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    Distinguished Member Array technomonster's Avatar
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    i dont plan on arguing that the push dagger is a tool and i wont be carrying it where i'm not allowed to have my gun. i was thinking more along the lines of using it in case someone grabbed a hold of me and i cant/dont want to shoot because i might hit myself or a bystander. the gun will always be my first choice if deadly force is needed.

    if i was justified in using deadly force would it really matter what i used? since i'm allowed to carry a gun (deadly weapon) why cant i carry a knife designed yo be the same? i understand that laws can be weird at times and they dont always make sense. but would LE be upset because i had such a blade when i'm licensed to carry a firearm?

    i do carry OC/mace, i have had used it once. it took a long time to kick in. it's a good SD option and i think everyone should carry it. i'm just flirting with the idea of having it as another option since it weighs very little and is easy to carry. and yes i'll be the first to admit that i dont anything about knife frighting, hence the push dagger. easy/instinctive to use and hard to disarm.

    if some one were to grab me from behind or got a hold of my strong arm it would be very difficult to shoot them but i could fairly easily stab them in the arm/hand? once they have grabbed on them OC would do little to make them let go, if anything i think they would hold on tighter.
    Last edited by technomonster; August 8th, 2013 at 04:09 PM.
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    Distinguished Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
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    Get some hand-to-hand training so that you are comfortable in tight with your attacker. I love it when they grab my arm or hand-it means I've got them!

    As far as a push dagger, I find a conventional style knife more flexible for slashing, which is what you'll most likely be doing in a defensive situation. Also, a conventional grip and blade can be reversed and used for trapping and locking techniques with the proper training, which I recommend.
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    Member Array Tennessee Jed's Avatar
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    If it's legal for you, I think it's a fine weak-side option. Do check your laws, though. In some states, carrying a push knife is illegal, regardless of whether you have a CCW permit. If I were to carry one (and I used to), I'd look at it more as a get-off-me device than anything else. I liked the Cold Steel smaller push knife, that had a single edge. I found you actually could use it for minor cutting chores if you gripped the part between the blade and the grip. If you ever found yourself having to use it with your weak hand, it doesn't get more gross-motor-skill than a push knife.

    The biggest problem I see is, even if it's legal to carry, you're going to have a very difficult time explaining to a jury why you were carrying "such a deadly looking weapon" on your belt. Legal or not, push knives look pretty nasty, and the uneducated masses are bound to think you had some nasty intent when you put it on that morning. It sucks, but those impressions can and will matter when they're determining whether you're guilty or innocent.

    Personally, I eventually left my push knife in the dresser drawer and started carrying a Leatherman or pair of pliers on my weak side. I figured that, for a get-off-me-device, a pair of pliers can be just as effective, and I later learned that pliers can be mighty handy in daily life. Dual purpose device.
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    You must understand that you are making a common sense argument regarding OHIO knife law and many State knife laws make no common sense. Check this out for yourself because I reside in Pennsylvania and our knife laws are vague and don't make very much sense either.

    In Ohio your license to legally carry a handgun is to carry a handgun and not a license to carry an additional, alternate, "deadly weapon" aka a knife.
    You would LOGICALLY think: "Well if I can carry a GUN legally then certainly I SHOULD be able to also legally carry whatever KNIFE I want!
    But, such is not always the case.
    In most places in Ohio the legal blade maximum is 2.5 Inches for a knife that can be considered a utilitarian tool like a Leatherman....which would not be inclusive of a Push Dagger unless you can somehow make a judge swallow your argument that it's easier to open cardboard boxes and cut packing tape with a Push Dagger.
    I am not trying to get into an argument with you. I am just trying to inform you of the fact that your decision is very likely not a legal one for Ohio and it could possible cost your license to carry a firearm since things do not always go as we think they will.
    You don't have to give your name but, call the Ohio State Police or the office of the Ohio Attorney General and tell them that you are legally licensed to carry a firearm in Ohio and so is it legal for you to also carry a Push Dagger?
    See what answer you get and then take it from there.




    Quote Originally Posted by technomonster View Post
    i dont plan on arguing that the push dagger is a tool and i wont be carrying it where i'm not allowed to have my gun. i was thinking more along the lines of using it in case someone grabbed a hold of me and i cant/dont want to shoot because i might hit myself or a bystander. the gun will always be my first choice if deadly force is needed.

    if i was justified in using deadly force would it really matter what i used? since i'm allowed to carry a gun (deadly weapon) why cant i carry a knife designed yo be the same? i understand that laws can be weird at times and they dont always make sense. but would LE be upset because i had such a blade when i'm licensed to carry a firearm?

    i do carry OC/mace, i have had used it once. it took a long time to kick in. it's a good SD option and i think everyone should carry it. i'm just flirting with the idea of having it as another option since it weighs very little and is easy to carry. and yes i'll be the first to admit that i dont anything about knife frighting, hence the push dagger. easy/instinctive to use and hard to disarm.

    if some one were to grab me from behind or got a hold of my strong arm it would be very difficult to shoot them but i could fairly easily stab them in the arm/hand? once they have grabbed on them OC would do little to make them let go, if anything i think they would hold on tighter.
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    Distinguished Member Array technomonster's Avatar
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    so i found the law referring to the carrying of weapons, i think it is current. it appears that in OHIO the law specifically prohibits the carrying of DEADLY WEAPONS OTHER THAN A HANDGUN, concealed or otherwise. so the push dagger for SD is out. bummer, any suggestions for other "get off me" implements?

    I. DEADLY WEAPONS.

    § 2923.11. Definitions.

    As used in sections 2923.11 to 2923.24 of the Revised Code:

    (A) "Deadly weapon" means any instrument, device, or thing capable of inflicting death, and designed or specially adapted for use as a weapon, or possessed, carried, or used as a weapon...

    (J) "Ballistic knife" means a knife with a detachable blade that is propelled by a spring-operated mechanism...

    * * * *


    § 2923.12. Carrying concealed weapons.

    (A) No person shall knowingly carry or have, concealed on the person's person or concealed ready at hand, any of the following:
    (1) A deadly weapon other than a handgun;
    (2) A handgun other than a dangerous ordnance;
    (3) A dangerous ordnance.
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    Distinguished Member Array technomonster's Avatar
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    i saw this a few years ago and i like the idea but it also has the appearance of a weapon rather then a tool.

    it does make a great box opener though. it stays on the fingers while still allowing the use of ones hand.

    HideAwayKnife
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    Distinguished Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
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    A BRIGHT tactical flashlight that can double as an impact weapon in the manner of a Kubotan; Highly recommended.

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