Why I don't carry intermediate arms

Why I don't carry intermediate arms

This is a discussion on Why I don't carry intermediate arms within the Defensive Knives & Other Weapons forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I posted this as a reply to a new member's concerns, but thought it deserved its own thread. Here goes: I carry my sidearm, a ...

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Thread: Why I don't carry intermediate arms

  1. #1
    Member Array FireNerd's Avatar
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    Why I don't carry intermediate arms

    I posted this as a reply to a new member's concerns, but thought it deserved its own thread. Here goes:

    I carry my sidearm, a small utility pocket knife, and a flashlight. I refuse to carry pepper spray, batons, stun guns, etc. I feel very strongly that those that do so are opening themselves up to needless litigation risk, and here's why: 1. Deployment of your firearm is a last ditch save your life or the lives of others occasion. I am a citizen, and I am not trying to make arrests or subdue suspects--i am trying to survive. 2. I see no possible use for intermediary weapons in this kind of scenario. Deployment of force in less than life threatening circumstances will land you in jail, and as previously stated, I am not trying to subdue and arrest anyone. If force is necessary, it should end the threat asap. Otherwise, walk or run away. 3. If I do have to use force, and I use potentially lethal force, I am laid bare to the argument that I "could have chosen to use less than lethal force, but maliciously chose to shoot instead" if I am carrying intermediate weapons.

    I am hopeful that this post generates some thought and consideration. I personally feel that carrying a baton or pepper spray won't buy you anything at the crux except a jail sentence.
    They think they don't need firearms because they never have needed them.

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    Senior Member Array Brent95's Avatar
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    Everyone has to do what they think is best for theirself.That said,i don't give advice on something like this,nor do i take it from a random person on internet and i don't mean to sound rude but that''s just me.

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    I think you would benefit from learning more about "disparity of force" such as from Mas Ayoob.
    Smitty
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    VIP Member Array ShooterGranny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brent95 View Post
    Everyone has to do what they think is best for theirself.That said,i don't give advice on something like this,nor do i take it from a random person on internet and i don't mean to sound rude but that''s just me.
    ^^^^Yes, I agree ^^^^^^^
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    I carry what you carry, for similar reasons.

    When I was about eighteen, there was a crowd of standing around the parking lot of a local watering hole watching two recent patrons have at with each other. The manager of the motel next door decided to break it up and disperse the crowd by hosing everyone with whatever spray was available in 1974. His actions so enraged those he had sprayed that he was literally beaten within an inch of his life. His victims/assailants escaped, while he took an ambulance ride.

    Flash forward twenty-eight years. My former army room-mate and best friend was a deputy with the Kings County Sheriff's Department. Responding to a report of a naked man running down the street in traffic, he rolled up on the scene and was immediately attacked. He sprayed the guy, which only served to further enrage him. He was beaten, disarmed and executed in the street with his own gun.

    I'm with you, if it is bad enough to go to contact weapons, it is bad enough to go gun.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brent95 View Post
    Everyone has to do what they think is best for theirself.That said,i don't give advice on something like this,nor do i take it from a random person on internet and i don't mean to sound rude but that''s just me.
    I didn't take it as advice, but rather a relevant topic presented to generate discussion on a defensive carry forum.
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    VIP Member Array OutWestSystems's Avatar
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    A lot of that depends on the state that you are in. In some states if you were being attacked with almost anything but a firearm, using a firearm could get you in trouble, in other states it would be perfectly fine.

    I don't carry other things because it is just not worth my time, not because I worry about liability.

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    Not sure I agree with this. If a guy squares off and tries to punch you, do you shoot him? If so, better get ready for a long stay in a state-run hotel.

    Not all attacks use lethal force, and it's appropriate to have less-lethal options to deal with them, while being prepared to switch to lethal methods if necessary. Personally, I choose a bright light with a strike bezel.
    BenGoodLuck and BigPony like this.
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    Ex Member Array DetChris's Avatar
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    I'm with the OP. I don't even carry a knife anymore. Just my gun and one reload. I will do everything I can to avoid, deescalate or flee. If the situation doesn't allow for any of those, I'll shoot. Keep it simple. It's easier for a jury or responding officer to understand too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maxwell97 View Post
    Not sure I agree with this. If a guy squares off and tries to punch you, do you shoot him? If so, better get ready for a long stay in a state-run hotel.

    Not all attacks use lethal force, and it's appropriate to have less-lethal options to deal with them, while being prepared to switch to lethal methods if necessary. Personally, I choose a bright light with a strike bezel.
    I have less-than-lethal options, and they don't come in a can. You don't think your light is lethal?
    blitzburgh, 357and40 and oakchas like this.
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    Member Array wysh's Avatar
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    I dont have many options because owr law is very clear," only one weapon". But, for life or death situations your gun, for any other, 911.

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    I agree that folks carrying concealed pistols should not carry items that are marketed as less lethal weapons. While the law may allow you to use them at times that you could not use your firearm and thus prevent you from getting to the point where you need the gun, it isn't worth the trade off. A prosecutor can easily turn it around on you if you do have to shoot someone.

    "This man had a pepper spray on him when he shot poor Fred. He didn't have to shoot him to get away, he could have used the pepper spray and ol' Fred wouldn't have been able to continue shooting at him because he'd be blinded. Our defendant just wanted an excuse to use the pistol that he carries around everywhere and Fred died as a result."

    Too easy for an idiot to use that and convince other idiots he is right.
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    Member Array NRA1945's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireNerd View Post
    I posted this as a reply to a new member's concerns, but thought it deserved its own thread. Here goes:

    I carry my sidearm, a small utility pocket knife, and a flashlight. I refuse to carry pepper spray, batons, stun guns, etc. I feel very strongly that those that do so are opening themselves up to needless litigation risk, and here's why: 1. Deployment of your firearm is a last ditch save your life or the lives of others occasion. I am a citizen, and I am not trying to make arrests or subdue suspects--i am trying to survive. 2. I see no possible use for intermediary weapons in this kind of scenario. Deployment of force in less than life threatening circumstances will land you in jail, and as previously stated, I am not trying to subdue and arrest anyone. If force is necessary, it should end the threat asap. Otherwise, walk or run away. 3. If I do have to use force, and I use potentially lethal force, I am laid bare to the argument that I "could have chosen to use less than lethal force, but maliciously chose to shoot instead" if I am carrying intermediate weapons.

    I am hopeful that this post generates some thought and consideration. I personally feel that carrying a baton or pepper spray won't buy you anything at the crux except a jail sentence.
    I wholeheartedly agree with your post, but I don't feel that the knife is one of those "intermediate weapons" if that was what you're implying. It is more of a weapon of absolute last resort, and unlike sprays or stun-guns, can be quite deadly if used the right way. Plus, unlike the previously mentioned weapons, the knife can serve numerous other purposes other then SD.

    WI CCW laws allow me to carry any knife I choose, barring certain illegal types like switchblades, etc. I could carry a Bowie knife down my pants if I wanted. However, I choose to carry a Buck model 442 clipped to my back pocket. It is very comfortable to carry, and I will most likely never use it in SD, but it is there as my final line of defense.

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    VIP Member Array blitzburgh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetChris View Post
    I'm with the OP. I don't even carry a knife anymore. Just my gun and one reload. I will do everything I can to avoid, deescalate or flee. If the situation doesn't allow for any of those, I'll shoot. Keep it simple. It's easier for a jury or responding officer to understand too.
    Thanks, your post said it all for me so I didn't have to.
    "Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God." - Benjamin Franklin
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    Senior Member Array patri0t's Avatar
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    I carry 2 ozs of Fox Labs Pepper Stream. I have had unarmed drunken bubbas decide I needed a 'beat-down' at a gas station and in a parking lot since I retired from LE.
    No way I could scrap like I used to as I need a cane to even walk.
    In either case, I could have been knocked-out with a lucky punch, disarmed, and lost my sidearm.

    In each case, I just pulled the little canister out of my pocket by its chain, as they approached with their threats, flipped the lever, hosed the clowns face, and been on my way as they staggered around blindly, bumping into each other.
    Had I been able to run, I would not have left my 6 yr old grand-daughter. On the other occasion, I was alone, but sent the tough-guys home cryin' with little effort.
    These situations are much more likely than an armed attacker.
    The only time I used it 'off-duty' in LE, was when a big dog charged me & the wife while walking in my neighborhood, in a diff State.

    Three times, for me, I didn't have to use my sidearm (or take a beating or get judged by a jury), because I had an easy, extra option.
    When I've used my OC, I just keep on walking, that may or may not be entirely legal.
    Retired State Trooper (40 long years) 8 years State Range Instructor - BS Degree- Justice, MS Degree- Criminology
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