Knifefighting vs. Street Clothing

This is a discussion on Knifefighting vs. Street Clothing within the Defensive Knives & Other Weapons forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Wikipedia has a fairly concise history of the evolution of and uses of the Tanto in its various forms. I once read somewhere (don't you ...

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Thread: Knifefighting vs. Street Clothing

  1. #16
    New Member Array Seamusalaska's Avatar
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    Wikipedia has a fairly concise history of the evolution of and uses of the Tanto in its various forms. I once read somewhere (don't you love it when someone says "somewhere", but I really can't remember) that the first tanto design wasn't really a design per say but a resharpening of a broken samurai sword so as not to waste the metal. It was designed to slash but that pointed chisel end does have its uses.

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  3. #17
    Senior Member Array Shadowsbane's Avatar
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    the area under the arms (if held straight down) offer some of the best opportunites for attack especially if one is quick enough to act upon those areas being exposed. All of that extra clothing can be used against them as well because it slows them down while offering you something to grab at.

    This is where all those anatomy classes really would come in handy, lots of vital arteries that will bleed out more blood then a BG has in a very short time. Personally if in that situation I would manuver behind the BG and deliver a blow about midway down the left side of the back, around 3 inches or so away from the spine. Good chance of puncturing the lung along with another organ. Sucking chest wounds tend to handle the rest.

    A sharp knife means everything however, as AzQkr and others have stated. I worked in a sushi bar for a long time, so all of my knives make razors look like butterknives. They dont really hurt when the cut you, but then they dont have to if they are used right.
    Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men.

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  4. #18
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    I basically agree with AzQkr. In my edged weapons training we did some slash/cut drills with serrated and straight edges - I now carry straight edges.

    Sharpness is critical and knives seem to dull as if by magic by just carrying them. A SD knife should be dedicated to that, not SD and general purpose use.
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  5. #19
    Senior Member Array Joshua M. Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    My trainer stressed serrations for its increased cutting ability.

    Not all serrations are created equally, consequently, not all serrations will give increased cutting ability in various mediums they have to bite through.

    In my own testing years ago and that of James Keating of Comtech fame [ one of the emeritas' in the world of knife knowledge ], and reported and discussed ad nauseum on bladeforums with others finding the same results, serrations are not conducive to increased cutting ability on clothing, the teeth drag on the materials, thus slowing the blade some resulting in cuts that are not as deep.

    Serrations increase cutting ability in cardboard, on ropes, etc, in loose clothing which may bundle/bind they are not as effective [ as a rule ] over a nicely sharpened straight edge blade.

    Now, another thing that needs to be addressed is that most will not keep their knives sharp enough all the time, or use a dedicated blade for SD only, keeping it razor sharp. The serrated blades create more cutting edge per inch of blade, so they stay sharper longer as a rule, and thats one of the reasons why many carry a serrated blade to begin with, it requires less resharpening overall.

    I carry straight edges blades exclusively for SD. The edge gets touched at least once a week to keep it honed to it's full potential whether it touches anything in between those times or not as it is not as sharp as when I've just finished touching it with the stones after only a few days.

    How many sharpen, resharpen their knives nightly/weekly, let alone anytime the edge actually has had to work during the day? Not many from what I've seen.

    Many tell me over the years their knives are sharp. Upon inspection and testing, they are not. They see the edge on my blades and know what sharp is. Big difference, but then being anal about the edges of my blades has always been an issue

    Brownie
    I dunno. I prefer serrations for cutting through tendon and fur on animals I shoot. I've never had a problem with hangups on what could arguably be called "leather" of a sort.

    My "always" SD knife is only 1/3 or so serrated, but they're there and have their uses. My "sometimes" knife is a fixed blade Colt Steel Master Hunter. It has no serrations.

    I'm serious about keeping my knives sharp to the point that I carry a medium diamond sharpener and very fine ceramic stone in my pocket, and will sit there sharpening whichever knife(s) I happen to have on me, preferably around the campfire but I'll take it out if I'm in the privacy of my car waiting on someone and put a few strokes on it then as well.

    Josh <><

  6. #20
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    Joshua;

    My boss at the gun shop is the VP of the Az Predator Callers Assoc and has been a professional game trapper in two states for over 2 decades.

    I've seen him skin and quarter yotes and pigs out here at the back of the shop in just minutes, literally. He uses a sharp straight edged blade.

    I just asked him what the assoc members prefer [ straight or serrated ] as a rule, and he tells me not one of the predator callers uses a serrated knife that he is aware of to slice or skin.

    He mentioned he uses serrated for cutting across hair onto bone like at the head and the feet areas, but that serrated edges require you to saw through and are not as effective at slicing as straights.

    Not sure what that tells anyone, but he is a pro at skinning game animals with thousands of animals in that capacity under his belt.

    Brownie
    Last edited by AzQkr; March 28th, 2007 at 01:54 PM.
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  7. #21
    Senior Member Array cockedlocked01's Avatar
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    Interesting thread...

    I'd have to agree with an earlier poster, that initially, I don't think "gang bangers" wear what they wear with self defense in mind.

    Professionally, it's been an advantage for me that they do wear the baggy stuff. Yes, it might "pad" them a little for knife strikes & baton strikes, but not enough. However, if it is a problem, the legs are good targets as well as the hands, neck, & head area. But, I think most people here know that.

    The baggy clothes does slow down their mobility, whether it be running or moving around for fighting. I actually like their baggy clothing, because it makes it easier for me to get ahold of them & pull them in closer for some "special" attention.

    I'd have to agree about the serrations thing. I've found them great (For me), on my everything knife, to cut rope & whatever. If serrations were so great for a fighting knife, I think we would have seen them on swords.

    I also agree on the SD only knife, that's why I carry 2 knives (Actually 3 now).

    Oh well, just my food for thought. I certainly don't want to argue with anyone...
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  8. #22
    Senior Member Array kylebce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenpoTex View Post
    I primarily train a reverse-grip, edge-in method where the thrusts are very powerful...in fact, I don't think of the method as thrusting as much as hitting with hammerfist strikes that just happen to have several inches of steel protruding from them. I don't even think about the blade, I think about slamming the base of my fist into the intended target.
    I train with the same technique- in Filipino it's called "Pakal grip." The situation dictates what weapon (hands, gun, knife) and technique is chosen.

    There aren't enough layers of clothing or body armor to protect against a trained knife wielder effectively. The targets are going to be throat, neck, eyes, hands, crotch. "soft targets" not covered with layers.

  9. #23
    Distinguished Member Array randytulsa2's Avatar
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    I'm with retsupt99 and redneck here.

    But if you ain't got a gun, try a push dagger- don't slash if you don't have to- - stab.

    Repeat as necessary.
    "...bad decisions that turn out well often make heroes."


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  10. #24
    VIP Member Array KenpoTex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kylebce View Post
    I train with the same technique- in Filipino it's called "Pakal grip." The situation dictates what weapon (hands, gun, knife) and technique is chosen.

    There aren't enough layers of clothing or body armor to protect against a trained knife wielder effectively. The targets are going to be throat, neck, eyes, hands, crotch. "soft targets" not covered with layers.
    Exactly.
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  11. #25
    Member Array duracles's Avatar
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    El Cruisr is correct. Do this.

    Get an old metal folding chair and punch your tanto thru. Then, take a bowie knife and do the same. Lastly, take a double edged pointed daggar and do it again. The bowie and the dagger go thru much deeper. If your guard and grip are worth a damn, you haven't lost any fingers. This is what it would be like slamming a knife into an opponent in a fight. Tanto's are great weapons, but if you are looking for a weapon to penetrate it better have the proper tip. I did a demonstration of this before. I worked as store manager in a local knife shop for almost ten years, and conducted many experiments. Try if for yourself, but be careful!
    "The best compliment to the Warrior is that others feel safe while you are around." I would add especially if they REALLY ARE safe when you are around.

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