A Moral Dilemma - Page 2

A Moral Dilemma

This is a discussion on A Moral Dilemma within the Defensive Knives & Other Weapons forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; But what happened to the duck?? --Travis--...

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Thread: A Moral Dilemma

  1. #16
    Member Array TravisABQ's Avatar
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    But what happened to the duck??

    --Travis--


  2. #17
    Former Member Array The Tourist's Avatar
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    Travis,

    The 'duck' angle comes from noticing the way I have speaking to my wife lately.

    If you remember "Married, With Children," Al Bundy always came home, confronted Peg and started his monologue with, "A fat lady comes into the shoe store today..."

    There was 'yada, yada' and a punch-line.

    I've fallen into the same patter. I come home as my wife has started dinner, and start speaking to her with, "Some idiot comes into the sporting goods store today with a dull knife..."

    It reminded me of old saloon jokes that began, "A penguin, a Sicilian ditch digger and a priest with a duck under him arm walk into a bar one night..."

    I now begin my speech to my wife with, "Some idiot with a duck under his arm..."

    More often than not, her concern rests with the duck, as well.

  3. #18
    Member Array TravisABQ's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    AH!

    A literary device.






    .... so this guy walks into the knife shop with a
    literary device under his arm.....

    :)

  4. #19
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    What, there really was no duck!!!!

    Oh well...

    -Scott-

  5. #20
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    I've heard so many people use the "my wife/child/hamster is sick" on my dad when he would collect past due bills for his store. Amazing - one person would magically break a body part every 30 days, right on the billing cycle.

    Of course, he may actually have a sick wife and has forgotten about the knife. Waiting 45 days is fair, and then the knife is fair game. Let's have a CombatCarry auction!
    "Americans have the will to resist because you have weapons. If you don't have a gun, freedom of speech has no power." - Yoshimi Ishikawa

  6. #21
    Member Array mchasal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Tourist
    In Wisconsin, we have what is known as a 'mechanics' lien.' That is, if you secure a workman to fix your car or whatever, and you stiff him on his wages, he gets the car or whatever to liquidate. Usually the mechanic must wait 30 days.
    Assuming you wait whatever period of time you deem as a reasonable given the situation, and he doesn't show up. Excercising your right under this law, you sell the knife for its $150 value. Then just suppose that he shows up a week/month/year later and says "I'm really sorry, my wife died and I just didn't remember about the knife. What do I owe you?" What is your responsibility under the law?

    You were within your rights to sell it, you got $150 for it and he owed you $7, do you then owe him $143? Do you get to subtract a storage and processing fee? Do you get to keep it all? How much hassle and documentation is involved for you?

    Just might be easier to stick that knife in a drawer and forget about it instead of having to carry around that potential liability.

    I'm not trying to bring the moral aspect into this, just pointing out that it may not be worth it to excercise your right in this case since it is $7 that you are owed.

    I do understand that you don't want to end up with a drawer full of knives each worth $7 to you that you don't have, but I don't know how often this happens if you actually keep the knife as collateral.

    Mike

  7. #22
    Former Member Array The Tourist's Avatar
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    you don't want to end up with a drawer full of knives
    Mchasal,

    You're right, I don't want that. To avoid that, what are my options without losing customers for customer service reasons--the dilemma. And when I do clamp down, how hard and how fast?

    In this particular case, I have a new knife and a small invoice. I think the Nimvarus is a much sought after knife and can be easily liquidated. Yes, there is the wife angle.

    Betty,

    My, my, you show up fast when a low cost premium blade shows up! Smooth talking, a voice as sweet as seroquel.

    Well, girl, we're going to have to wait for some time--as much as I despise it. My wife (and me included) have been sick and the world still continues to spin. Before that Nimvarus slips into your BOB, we're going to have to play his silly little game.

    To all,

    We had a delivery man come to the house last night with goods marked COD. We didn't want to put it on the card, and my wife wondered if a check would clear. We ran around the house looking for crumpled one dollar bills and quarters to pay the guy.

    We are not poor, but if you eat the cost of enough knives, then your ability to pay gets affected.

  8. #23
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by TravisABQ
    AH!

    A literary device.






    .... so this guy walks into the knife shop with a
    literary device under his arm.....

    :)
    LOL! Man! Knives are the only sharp things around here!

  9. #24
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    Tourist,

    I'd say hang onto the knife as long as you legally must, and then some. If the guy is legit, he'll be back if/when things settle down for him, and you'll have the opporunity to generate some goodwill.

    I've never run a business like you have, so I'm not qualified to advise, but I think the idea of having receipts that spell out a "Items held for X days" policy might help prevent this kind of dilemma in the future.

    Good luck.

    SSKC

  10. #25
    Member Array mchasal's Avatar
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    Would it be unreasonable to require pre-payment for your services? Since it's such a small amount, I know I wouldn't have a problem giving you the few dollars when I drop the knife off, and then would just have to pick it up when done. It seems like doing this would prevent these sorts of problems. Though it does leave you in an interesting situation if someone does pre-pay and doesn't pick up their blade. The mechanic's lein wouldn't apply in that case, but I suppose you could just toss them in an unclaimed box since it isn't holding up your income at that point.

    Maybe there would be resistance since you would then have their knife and their $7, but since the knives are worth so much more than the fee, if you were out to steal knives, the fact that the customer owes you $7 wouldn't be a deterrent.

    Also maybe clearly stating a satisfaction guarentee would help too. If they weren't happy with the edge, you would refund the money. I'm guessing you have something like this already, but of course, all your customers are satisfied, so it's never an issue ;)

    Mike

  11. #26
    Former Member Array The Tourist's Avatar
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    Mchasal,

    Several diverse things at play here, and ask Betty about the retail climate.

    First, we are dealing with a service that is tantamount to a 'shoe shine.' It is not a service which mandates a credit check, a retina scan, references and a note from the guy's mother. A guy plunks a 100 dollar knife down and wants a "fi'e dolla" edge. No contract is required.

    Further, I used to work in an environment where contracts, credit checks and collection were common aspects of my day. I no longer wish to work in that type of pressure-cooker. However, I must make money somehow.

    In this miasma of finance, we have what is known as "The Wendt Factor." Briefly this concept underlines that no matter how gracious and competent a service is delivered, your proficiency will cultivate a routine number of jerks, scallywags and highway-men. Usually they will all show up on the day you are having a migraine.

    But as any astute pupil of modern urban merchatile interface knows, The Wendt Factor is often offset by what as known as "Balistreri's Ten Rules of Commerce." It is sort of like a shorthand version of the Ferangi Rules of Acquisition.

    Rule Number Three states simply that "A sledge-hammer is just as good at killing a mosquito as a rolled up newspaper." Rule Number Seven follows, "A friend will help you move, but a true friend will help you move bodies."

    As you can see in this brief treatise, the thrust of trade is that a business is a business and not a way to disseminate charity.

    I try to be fair, polite and helpful, however.

    Rule Number Four clearly states, "Even a hit-man can wear a nice suit."

  12. #27
    Senior Member Array rfurtkamp's Avatar
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    If you're carrying from location to location (which is what it sounds like), instead of operating from fixed retail places, I can see the reticence to carry around the item.

    Personally, I'd probably sell the item after the period is up - as a contract programmer/DBA, I'm getting stuck with all sorts of sob stories and silliness as well about everything under the sun. After the 'unclaimed item' period, the item is yours.
    I don't care any more if New York explodes in a ball of wax and is replaced by a Starbucks, I'm getting paid on the invoice date by the client- unless I have a long standing personal relationship with 'em.

  13. #28
    Member Array mchasal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Tourist
    Mchasal,

    Several diverse things at play here, and ask Betty about the retail climate.

    ...
    Sorry Tourist, you lost me with this last post. All I was suggesting is that you collect your payment when the knife is dropped off instead of when it is picked up. This would protect your income in case of someone not picking up their knife and also prevent some of the walk-offs that you've already had trouble with.

    Not sure if this would be a problem with your customers or not, I only know I wouldn't personally have a problem with, and I certainly wasn't suggesting any form of charity or contracts and credit checks.

    Maybe I just missed the point of your last post, in which case, I'm sorry for being too dense, maybe it's just too late in the day ;)

    Mike
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  14. #29
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    Sometimes I wonder if Tourist gets lost in his own posts.

    I sure don't miss retail.
    "Americans have the will to resist because you have weapons. If you don't have a gun, freedom of speech has no power." - Yoshimi Ishikawa

  15. #30
    Former Member Array The Tourist's Avatar
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    Lost? I'm fairly certain where I'm going...

    Betty once related that she sharpened knives in her parents hardware store. In doing so, she met a lot of nutballs. While she doesn't sharpen as much, I seem to have inherited her clientele.

    Now get this. A well known businessman from a long standing company calls me twice yesterday all in a lather to get some knives sharpened. He drops them off before I get to Gander-East. There are eleven knives, that's +55 inches on steel, some repair work and a nice tip. Seventy dolla.

    The guy never shows to pay. The knives are in my truck. Unpaid for.

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