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About LinkBacksWhat are the advantages/disadvantages of both? I've seen some on the forum that go for blackjacks -- even with their shorter range -- instead of batons. Are they more lethal/reliable? Let's here what you know and think!
This is a discussion on Blackjack & Saps vs. the telescopic baton within the Defensive Knives & Other Weapons forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; What are the advantages/disadvantages of both? I've seen some on the forum that go for blackjacks -- even with their shorter range -- instead of ...
Blackjack or sap
Telescopic baton
Neither one! It's nunchakus all the way for me, baby!!
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What are the advantages/disadvantages of both? I've seen some on the forum that go for blackjacks -- even with their shorter range -- instead of batons. Are they more lethal/reliable? Let's here what you know and think!
A man without a blackthorn stick is a man without an expedient. - Irish Proverb
Why so SERIOUS?
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it's a preferrence thing really...the baton gives you greater reach but I feel that a 'jack is going to hit harder. For example: a 26" ASP weighs 19oz, some common weights for blackjacks are 14 and 16 oz. The difference is that with the 'jack, most of the weight is at the head rather than distributed down the length of the weapon where it doesn't really do much for you.
"Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina
If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.
Matt K.
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I carried a Slap Jack (Flat , solid lead "head", spring steel , leather covered handle) for 'bout the first fifteen years of my career. Good thing about the 'jack is that you always had it with you, either in the special narrow pocket in the side of our uniform pants (Where sitting on it all day would make your butt go numb) , or sticking out of the inside breast pocket of our leather jackets. Most of the time when you have to jump out of the cruiser to either chase someone, or respond to something on the street, you end up leaving your nightstick in the patrol car. Yes it lacks the reach of a baton, but it can be devastating at contact range. In my department we have had to give up our jacks for the issued pepper spray..... I'd rather have my Jack back. Pepper spray does not always work on drunks, highly skilled martial artists, or the mentally deranged. Oh, yeah, it does not work on dogs, either. I miss my blackjack.
"The more people I meet, the more I like my Dog"
A blackjack hits hard wherever it hits. Its a sad fact that it worked well enough that most police Dept's. dont use it or allow their officers too anymore.
The ASP is a different type of weapon. Its made to be used on pressure points and when done correctly it works very well. Personally, I think its more versatile than the standard blackjack.
The blackjack can be used by anyone without any training as an impact weapon, the ASP takes a fair amount of training to use effectively.
I think that the ASP is misunderstood by most...even those that carry them everyday.
When I first encountered one in HTH training years ago, I gave it no respect. That was a mistake. I told my instructor to whack me like he would a perp on the street and to not hold back. I was amazed at the effectiveness of it and wouldn't have believed it if I had not experienced it.
Lets just say that I am a believer now...
It is better to live one day as a lion, than a thousand years as a lamb...
AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
Maker of cool things to shoot
Yes, the asp is a great tool if used correctly. I havent used it since the Taser came out, but it works well from dogs to windows, it breaks everything I hit with it.
"Just blame Sixto"
2*
M&P Doc- Just ask.
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I prefer a tonfa for blunt weapons good reach and can be used to hook body parts and such. Much higher learning curve to really use effectivly however.
Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men.
www.Lonelymountainleather.com
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iam always carrying one slapper or blackjack and my ESP expandable baton they both have their pros and cons.
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I carry a manriki gusari. For those who aren't familar, it's a traditional Japanese weapon. Basically a chain with weights at both ends
I like it because it has a good reach and a lot of fire-power, and you can wrap one end around your hand to keep it from slipping out, or getting knocked out of your hand. But one has to be careful not to hit one's self when the chain swings back towards you.
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The asp not only has a longer reach, it can also be used to block and defend against blows from weapons such as clubs, knives, pipes or chains, similar to the PR24 batons that I was trained on.
Cordially,
GPS
Visit U.S. Concealed Carry - The Ultimate Resource for the Armed Citizen http://www.usconcealedcarry.com/inde...ffID=GStrecker
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Yeah I used to carry one of those, was stolen though (by my brother) and I have not been able to find another one. Great little weapon really. Nice intimidation factor as well.Originally Posted by Norwolf
I carry a manriki gusari. For those who aren't familar, it's a traditional Japanese weapon. Basically a chain with weights at both ends
I like it because it has a good reach and a lot of fire-power, and you can wrap one end around your hand to keep it from slipping out, or getting knocked out of your hand. But one has to be careful not to hit one's self when the chain swings back towards you.
Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men.
www.Lonelymountainleather.com
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NOTHING is a better impact weapon than the slapper or Sap, IMO. It's just like driving nails with a hammer!
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Hmm, California, right? Where, prey tell, are you carrying this?I carry a manriki gusari. For those who aren't familar, it's a traditional Japanese weapon. Basically a chain with weights at both ends
I like it because it has a good reach and a lot of fire-power, and you can wrap one end around your hand to keep it from slipping out, or getting knocked out of your hand. But one has to be careful not to hit one's self when the chain swings back towards you.
Seriously, both of these weapons aren't legal for "most" people in CA. I would go with the ASP, although I prefer a standard non-collapsible one when I was going somewhere I felt I needed it. I just find the ASP more versatile, because you can use it defensively.
"Use human means as though divine ones didn't exist, and divine means as though there were no human ones." Baltasar Gracian
Integrated Close Combat
NRA Member
Glock 19 & 26, Kahr P45, Taurus PT709 SLIM, Kel-Tec P-32, S&W 442, & Dan Wesson 14-2.
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Jack/sap- very easily concealed, may be used without being readily seen ("Geez! He must have punched him really hard.....!
Batons- great when used properly, offer good block/counter-strike against ball bats, etc., really, really damaging to forearms and joints(aka, "not authorized use").
I'm certified for an ASP, but I don't carry it much. Saps aren't legal here in TN, go figure.
"Americans have the will to resist because you have weapons. If you don't have a gun, freedom of speech has no power." - Yoshimi Ishikawa
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Well, they ain't legal here in Oklahoma either...but I would carry one in a minute, if I could find one! I used to carry one when I was a rookie. Hell, I remember taking it up to CLEET (Police Academy) with me and one of the instructors saw it and said...
"I want you to run - NOT WALK - to your car, put that sap in the trunk, and when you go home this weekend...SELL IT! HELL! GIVE it away if you have to, and NEVER use that thing AGAIN!"
But we all know how instructors are. I continued to carry it until I hit a guy across the shin with it while trying to "place" him in the backseat. He kicked at me, I hit him with the sap, and the leather was so dry rotted, that my lead flew out of the end of it, hence...ending it's life on the street.
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