Defensive Knives ?

Defensive Knives ?

This is a discussion on Defensive Knives ? within the Defensive Knives & Other Weapons forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Ok, new here so wondering if I might ask a couple of questions? 1) What would be a good defensive knife? 2) What about technique, ...

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Thread: Defensive Knives ?

  1. #1
    Member Array Argus's Avatar
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    Defensive Knives ?

    Ok, new here so wondering if I might ask a couple of questions?
    1) What would be a good defensive knife?

    2) What about technique, and or training?

    3) What type of scenario would a knife be useful?
    Any education here would be helpful. Thanks


  2. #2
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    Array buckeye .45's Avatar
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    I carry a Spyderco Delica with wave. The best defensive knife would be a fixed blade fighting knife, like a Ka-bar, but carrying those is kind of out of the question. A good 3-4 inch folder that you can carry and get deployed quickly, like from a belt pouch or pocket clip. I like knives with back locks as opposed to liner locks, I think the back lock is a little more sturdy and don't want the blade closing on my fingers while using it.

    For training look into some of the schools that teach classes on knives, or join a martial arts group that uses weapons like Filipino martial arts.

    A knife is useful if for some reason you can not get your firearm deployed, or there are places you can't carry your firearm legally but you can usually carry a knife.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
    NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor

  3. #3
    Distinguished Member Array fed_wif_a_sig's Avatar
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    Just based upon my personal experiences I'll throw in my 2 cents.

    Knife:
    I carry either my Emerson CQC-7 or my Spyderco/Emerson Endura with WAVE. The only other folding knife other than those two I would consider seriously (once it gets here) will be a Boker/Wagner knife.

    Training:
    The suggestion about joining a group or training in the Filipino arts is good, BUT I think you'll do better to attend a focused course by someone who has a vaild reputation and can testify on your behalf incase you are ever needed to use a blade in self defense. The #1 recognized instructor is Ernest Emerson. His course is the most recognized among law enforcement and as such would be a heck of a defense (oh their not cost prohibitive). Another high quality instructor is Jim Wagner. Either one will do you right.

    I've only once had to use a knife for self defense that I'll discuss, and it was my Emerson CQC-7 (made the first year Ernest bagan production). It was against a dog, and the blade survived a plunge into the scalp as it was attacking me while I rode my bike. The blade did exactly what it was suppose to, and dropped the K9 right there.

    Good luck and keep'm sharp.
    Steve
    "Respect all ... Fear none!!!

  4. #4
    Senior Member Array cockedlocked01's Avatar
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    I'd have to 2nd fed_wif_a_sig's post. E. Emerson, his instruction, & his knives are great

    My best folder is the same knife FWAS has, I think (CQC7A). It has a satin finished partially serrated blade. It's the 1st yr Emerson started his own production & probably the best buy I've made on a knife (Bought it for $85 out the door).

    The Boker/Wagner's probably the next folder, with an over 3" blade that I'll buy.

    A nice 2nd knife to get, as a back-up &/or when you're someplace that won't allow over 2-2.5" blades, is one of Boker Subcoms or Wharcom. When deployed, it's similar to a HAK, considerably less expensive, & not illegal in certain areas that won't allow concealed fixed blades of any length.
    "Use human means as though divine ones didn't exist, and divine means as though there were no human ones." Baltasar Gracian
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  5. #5
    Member Array Argus's Avatar
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    Interesting. I have some martial arts experiance. Shorin Ryu, Tae Kwon Do. Traveling to California, or London is out. (Did a quick search) What about video? And practice with my son (23 years old}

  6. #6
    Distinguished Member Array Chooie's Avatar
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    Most knife makers (Emerson included) offer blunt, edgeless training models that are identical in size, shape, and handling to their live counterparts.

    http://www.emersonknives.com/miva/me...TrainingModels

  7. #7
    Member Array kikr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Argus View Post
    Ok, new here so wondering if I might ask a couple of questions?
    1) What would be a good defensive knife?

    2) What about technique, and or training?

    3) What type of scenario would a knife be useful?
    Any education here would be helpful. Thanks
    I carry 3 knifes EDC. A Gerber "backup" dagger, cold steel voyager folder, and a swiss army knife.

    Techniques would fill a book, but training can be acquired from Gabe Suarez or Southnarc, or some martial arts .

    Scenario, I carry a knife as a backup weapon, or as an E&E weapon.
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    We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.
    George Orwell

  8. #8
    Distinguished Member Array fed_wif_a_sig's Avatar
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    I have the Gerber Guardian knife also (along with a Mk 1) but it is illegal to carry a double edge knife in most states, so I dropped it as my back up knife to a drawer knife.

    As far as Emerson's training.....do what we did, get about 20 people together who are willing to pay $200 to $300 a piece for a class and host him. Trust me, you wont regret it.

    I will say this about video. Can you call it to testify? Its kinda like the commercial about TurboTax (the one that if you get audited whos going with you). I take an accountant to the IRS (if ever called) and a nationally recognized trainer to court.

    Give him a call he just might have a class in your area or know of a trainer there he would recommend.
    Steve
    "Respect all ... Fear none!!!

  9. #9
    Member Array Jamie Jackson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Argus View Post
    Ok, new here so wondering if I might ask a couple of questions?
    1) What would be a good defensive knife?
    imho, The one you have with you when you need it the most. Not being flip. But having a knife that you can bring into use, surely and quickly, is of quality make, and well maintained, should serve you well.

    A lot depends on the parameters of your defensive or utility needs. Some knives can serve double duty, others are task specific.

    I carry a waved Spydie Delica non-dominate side and a Benchmade Griptilian-waved strong side.


    A readily accessible fixed blade, like the Shivworks Clinch Pick or Disciple are excellent choices, if legal in your area. Again, imho.

    Another option, that I haven’t worked with yet, but will in the very near future, is the TDI Last Ditch Knife. A very affordable and a well thought out design.

    The Emerson Perrin La Griffe is another proven choice.



    Quote Originally Posted by Argus View Post
    2) What about technique, and or training?
    FMA, as noted, lends itself well to knife work.

    I definitely agree that a focused course, such as one with SouthNarc, is a Huge benefit. Great guy and excellent instructor!

    Paul Gomez is another individual that brings a wealth of information to the table, although not specifically a “Knife Trainer”, he’s one of the most well rounded guys I know.

    There are a lot of other good instructors around, and I’m sure someone with personal experience will make recommendations.

    I have taken a course with Andy Stanford before, when he runs his, it’s well worth the time, again imho.


    The Red Zone DVD’s have some good info.

    The Jim Grover aka Kelly McCann vids have some good info. And are well made.

    Nothing beats personal, hands on instruction though.








    Quote Originally Posted by Argus View Post
    3) What type of scenario would a knife be useful?
    Any education here would be helpful. Thanks
    To paraphrase Andy Stanford: Avoidance, Deterrence, &, Descalation should be our primary goals.

    Accessing a handgun generally requires reaction time (recognizing the threat),space (for joint articulation), and an index (on the threat) for deployment of the handgun. This is obviously our goal and what we train to be able to do.

    Frequently attacks come at extremely close range, with minimal warning…Think fighting in a phone booth. And increasingly the attack is in the form of multiple thugs.

    A blend of empty hand skills and a focus on “In Fight Weapons Access” lends itself well to a small fixed blade. While not legal in all jurisdictions, a properly designed fixed blade is very fast & sure in deployment. A good “waved” folder would be my next choice.

    There are also situations where carrying a handgun, due to legal restrictions (ie Place of Employment, verboten CCW States, etc.) may dictate that a blade be our primary weapon.

    They are all just tools, and we hopefully integrated them into an overall Self Defense System, not dependant on any one item. Hopefully Awareness and Avoidance will be at the Top of the List.

    But when my OODA Loop has been disrupted, I like to have options available.

    These are just my opinions. As a newbie here, my apologies if I’m being redundant. I’m doing some reading, and appreciate the integrity of the forum.

    Good luck on your quest.

    Stay Safe,

    JJ
    Jamie

  10. #10
    Ex Member Array jahwarrior72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Argus View Post
    Ok, new here so wondering if I might ask a couple of questions?
    1) What would be a good defensive knife?

    2) What about technique, and or training?

    3) What type of scenario would a knife be useful?
    Any education here would be helpful. Thanks
    here are my few cents:

    1) if you're not used to carrying a knife, buy one NOW! a fixed blade is always better than a folder, but is not always an option. if it is, buy a small fixed blade 3" or less, and single edged, as daggers are pretty much a no no everywhere these days. carryt it with you at ALL times, just to familiarize yourself with having it. use it for everyday chores, gardening, etc. believe me, it helps. if you buy a folder, buy one from a reputable company, like emerson, and do the same thing. practice deploying it with speed, and often. if you're LEO or military, that gives you the option of using an automatic knife.

    2) i think it's best to just get comfortable carrying using one for everyday chores at first, to help get over any anxieties you might get from a blade. a strange phenomenon i've noticed is how many people who carry a gun are unsure with themselves with a blade, and vice versa. i'm 34, and have carried a knife since i'm 9, but only started carrying a gun this year. as far as training, there are dozens of "arts" that specialize in knife fighting: most SE asian martial arts, like pentjak silat, escrima and arnis, tantojutsu and battojutsu from japan, and plenty of others are out there. even epmty hand forms, like karate and boxing, translate excellently to weapon forms. technique is something you develop on your own.

    or, if you're street saavy, find yourself a couple of older puerto ricans to teach you some tricks.

    3) this is a hard question. the first scenario, and most obvious, is the one where you can't or don't have a gun. in that case, i'd grab the first thing that i saw. other situations might be: a very limited space, like a closet or narrow hallway, where drawing a gun might be too difficult or impossible; in a crowd, where firing a gun might cause unacceptable collateral damage; in a clinch, where you lost your gun, or can't deploy it; in a "stealth" situation, where gunfire might call the attention of other BGs, and you're on your own; in rescue situation; in triage; and in a hundred other ways where you might need to cut something.

    that's the thing i love about this place: as a gun noob, i think i've asked every possible question, and gotten good responses without ever being made to feel like an idiot. finally, i get to give advice on a subject i actually have some knowledge and experience with! i hope this helped some. let me us know what you decide on!

  11. #11
    Member Array Mass-Diver's Avatar
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    For a defensive knife, I went with a spyderco civillian. You should check it out, it's a sweetie and seems pretty simple to use.

  12. #12
    Distinguished Member Array fed_wif_a_sig's Avatar
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    I pretty much agree with the get a knife now, but if its a folder, I'm real leary of bad ones as my old partner had one close on his fingers and that was ugly.

    Use to stock cheap'o knives in my checked luggage so that when in countries where we surrendered our weapons, we could carry atleast a small folder and just toss it in the trash the next day. However, hacing a blade close on your fingers is just so ugly I took to just mailing my 2nd knife home before we left country.

    Spyderco's arnt that expensive and I have put their Byrd knives through some tough test (Byrd is Spyderco's knives made overseas at their specs and sold by them for a cheaper price) and they have held up just like the US made Spydercos.
    Steve
    "Respect all ... Fear none!!!

  13. #13
    Ex Member Array HOLYROLLER's Avatar
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    For self-defense...fixed blade, belt level, strong side. Good for dogs and peeling apples. Most knife-fight scenarios arent very plausable. I was a knife freak before I was a gun nut, pulled it once on a dog that had snuck in my garage.

  14. #14
    Member Array Argus's Avatar
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    A lot of good thoughts on this subject. As said earlier responses have been respectful and helpful. As an outdoors man and (former martial artist) I think I can adapt to a mind set of blade defense. These days being able to defend yourself, any time or any way is helpful, Thank you.

  15. #15
    Distinguished Member Array fed_wif_a_sig's Avatar
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    Folders work on dogs too (Well atleast Emerson folders do).
    Steve
    "Respect all ... Fear none!!!

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