I REALLY want to carry a fixed blade - Page 2

I REALLY want to carry a fixed blade

This is a discussion on I REALLY want to carry a fixed blade within the Defensive Knives & Other Weapons forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I think they covered that with "or other device". I can see how it would be an outstanding argument in court. I'd just rather avoid ...

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Thread: I REALLY want to carry a fixed blade

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    I think they covered that with "or other device". I can see how it would be an outstanding argument in court. I'd just rather avoid court.

    Again, I respect your interpretation and your position.
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington


  2. #17
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musketeer View Post
    Remember with all the assisted blades you are not pressing a lever or button. You are pressing the BLADE. There is a fine but very legally defined difference. That "thumb lever" on the kershaw is the blade, same steel, just the back end of it.

    LEO "How do you open that?"

    You "I open it by pushing on the blade."
    Yeah, bad idea. At the least you'll lose your knife, at worst, they'll charge you. The law is purposely ambiguous, and I doubt anyone here is willing to spend $50K to keep a $50 knife. "Other device" in the statute, means whatever the arresting officer and the DA agree on. OTOH, you do what you need to get home at the end of the day...

  3. #18
    Member Array ShooterMcGavin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
    I'm often amazed at the narrow mindedness of people.

    You're licensed and authorized to carry a gun and can carry a folding, lock blade knife, but a 3" fixed blade is prohibited.

    I completely agree Forget about a 3" fixed blade... a 1/2" fixed blade is illegal!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob72 View Post
    I'm always a bit leery, when people skirt the issue in that way. Realistically, if a DA had reason, and wanted to, he'd tan your hide for violating the spirit though not the letter of the law, and probably be effective doing it.

    Having said that, the best folding alternative to fixed is the Spyderco wave. Alternatively, call your local DA's office and ask about the opened-folder-sheath-system....or, make your own decision. Basically, I'm saying don't find a getaround and convince yourself it would never be a problem.
    Yes, you are right, and I have the same reservations. I guess that's why I posted here first. I suppose I will not be doing this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Musketeer View Post
    Get a quality folding knife, even assisted, and you are going to be a hell of a lot better off than trying to get away with a opened knife in a custom sheath.
    I disagree (oh, maybe you mean "better off [in court]"). Even with a wave-opened knife, nothing is as fast into action as a fixed blade. Sometimes you do not have the free space to 'wave' a knife, or even to flick it open.

    Quote Originally Posted by matiki View Post
    They wrote the law in a convoluted manner, but with a clear intent. They wanted to make it easier to bust gang members for carrying weapons. They outlawed most knives, razor blades, billy clubs, nun-chucks, and throwing stars.

    I carry a Kershaw Ken Onion Blur knife. If I hold it so the blade opens down, and apply pressure to the thumb lever, it opens completely. Many assisted openers do this. This makes it illegal by definition. In practice, you can demonstrate for the Officer (as I have had to) that the knife does not open when held horizontally, and that's good enough. If the Officer wanted to bust me, they need only to have me demonstrate it in a different manner (or try it themselves).
    I appreciate your input. I thought they wanted the law for a reason to haul someone in for a technicality, like you said. I carry a Benchmade 720 daily and never thought it fell under the category of illegal knives. I kinda feel worse now than when I started this thread

    Knives I was considering for opened-sheath-carry:
    Benchmade 635 Mini-Skirmish
    Chris Reeve Sebenza

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array raevan's Avatar
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    There are exceptions to the fixed blade code.

    SMC 12A.14.100 Exemptions -- Dangerous knives.

    The proscriptions of Section 12A.14.080 B relating to dangerous knives
    shall not apply to:

    A. A licensed hunter or licensed fisherman actively engaged in hunting
    and fishing activity including education and travel related thereto;
    or

    B. Any person immediately engaged in an activity related to a lawful
    occupation which commonly requires the use of such knife, provided
    such knife is carried unconcealed; provided further that a dangerous
    knife carried openly in a sheath suspended from the waist of the
    person is not concealed within the meaning of this subsection;

    C. Any person carrying such knife in a secure wrapper or in a tool box
    while traveling from the place of purchase, from or to a place of
    repair, or from or to such person's home or place of business, or in
    moving from one (1) place of abode or business to another, or while in
    such person's place of abode or fixed place of business.

    Per the above you may carry a fixed blade if it is visible and is necessary for your job or while you are fishing or hunting.

  5. #20
    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    So... know any good places to hunt or fish in Seattle?
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

  6. #21
    Member Array chuck brick's Avatar
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    I haven't seen them for a long time, so they may be hard to find (or no longer around), but I recall seeing folding-knife belt sheaths that would open the knife as it was withdrawn. The knife, of course, could be drawn while closed, but the normal/usual draw caused it to open and lock. Since this is in no way part of the knife itself, it would be hard to press charges against - maybe a strong warning and confiscation, but that's not the same. Wish I could give you a manufacturer's name or something to look for, but I never paid a lot of attention to them other than as a curio. At least, with the internet, if it's still out there you might find it.
    Sorry I can't offer more info.

    Stay safe,

    Chuck Brick.
    Why do I use 230 gr. for my .45acp?
    Because I can't find a source of 250 gr!
    http://chucksrantings.blogspot.com/

  7. #22
    VIP Member Array raevan's Avatar
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    People fish off the piers and off the few beaches. I wouldn't eat the fish though. As to hunting I would suspect you are out of luck. Some jobs such as Lineman, Cable splicer, Central Office Telephone Tech, Telephone Installer, Cable Installer, Carpenter, Cabinet Installer, Gardener may allow you to carry a fixed blade.

  8. #23
    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raevan View Post
    People fish off the piers and off the few beaches. I wouldn't eat the fish though. As to hunting I would suspect you are out of luck. Some jobs such as Lineman, Cable splicer, Central Office Telephone Tech, Telephone Installer, Cable Installer, Carpenter, Cabinet Installer, Gardener may allow you to carry a fixed blade.
    I should have included a wink .

    There are times you can get around the law, but for me, that's almost never. Despite that, I carry an assisted opener that's the legal length, but open to the Officer (and Prosecutors) discretion on interpretation of the law.
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

  9. #24
    Senior Member Array bzdog's Avatar
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    Matiki, could you explain why you are convinced about your interpretation of SMC? Are you a legal professional or LEO, or have you asked this of a legal professional?

    Thanks,

    -john

  10. #25
    Member Array C Paul Lincoln's Avatar
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    My experiences would indicate that knives which open by thumb pressure on an extension or in a hole (e.g.-- Spyderco and others) are not viewed by law enforcement as illegal. They are very commonly carried in western Washington without gaining LEO attention.

    As a school administrator, I confiscated a folding knife from a student who had known gang affiliations. It had a blade of about 4.5 inches, and was very "loose." Messing around with the knife, I realized that it could be opened with a flick of the wrist, using centrifugal force. The LEO that I consulted about this said he didn't think it would pass as a "dangerous weapon" because it wasn't designed with the intent to open that way. Likewise, I confiscated and turned over many knives with thumb openers, and none of the students were ever charged under the "dangerous weapon" statute.

    The problem in Washington (don't know about elsewhere), is that except for state definitions of dangerous weapons (RCW 9.41 I believe), other local governments can enact ordinances that prohibit knives or other weapons. I can probably carry a fixed-blade knife legally in some areas of King County, and certainly in rural areas of the state, but not in Seattle or Spokane city limits. Likewise, although state law is silent about Tasers, some cities like Bellingham make them illegal.

    I wish the state would pass legislation that would give them complete control over all weapons, like they have done on firearms. At least the law would then be consistent everywhere.

  11. #26
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShooterMcGavin View Post

    I appreciate your input. I thought they wanted the law for a reason to haul someone in for a technicality, like you said. I carry a Benchmade 720 daily and never thought it fell under the category of illegal knives. I kinda feel worse now than when I started this thread

    Knives I was considering for opened-sheath-carry:
    Benchmade 635 Mini-Skirmish
    Chris Reeve Sebenza
    Maybe we need to back up a tad, here. Basically, practically, the law is intended as you take it. If you're Honest Joe, and keep your head down & mouth shut, you won't have a problem 99.99% of the time. Even if you have a problem, as long as you are polite ("Gee, officer, I sure didn't think...here ya' go...") worst case scenario, you have a knife confiscated. That's not to say you won't run into Officer "Richard", but most guys are just doing their job, and don't have a problem with other guys doing the same.

    If you just want a utility/last ditch defensive carry knife, the nicer BMs or a Sebbie would be great, and about as "inoffensive" as you can get. However. They are hardly "rapid access".

    If your primary goal is a knife to aid in firearm retention, or as a tool if your primary hand is occupied, Cold Steel's Voyagers (last choice), Spyderco Endura/Delica with hole (second choice), or Spyderco waved Endura/Delicas(first choice) would be better choices. They are easier to open. They are cheap enough that you won't cry if you have to hand one over. They are so common they will hardly get a second glance. A Sebenza could fall prey to someone in authority who's a knife fan and a tad unscrupulous.

  12. #27
    Senior Member Array bzdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Paul Lincoln View Post
    My experiences would indicate that knives which open by thumb pressure on an extension or in a hole (e.g.-- Spyderco and others) are not viewed by law enforcement as illegal. They are very commonly carried in western Washington without gaining LEO attention.
    Thanks C Paul for your feedback. This was my take on it as well.

    I searched the legal section of Bladeforums, and what little I could find directly about Seattle basically summed it up as 'no fixed blades. 3.5" or less. no autos. anything else should be fine.'.

    While I understand he isn't a legal expert, I did drop an email to Bernard Levine who offers to answer knife legal questions for a small fee. I'll let everyone know what he thinks.

    In wadding through the legal section of Bladeforums, it is clear that 1) a good attitude on your part is going to go a long way towards avoiding any issues and 2) getting a low key knife like a Grip or a Spydie will help avoid unwanted attention. And perhaps, 3) Don't flick your knife open one-handed in public. :-)

    -john


    Edit: Looks like Rob beat me to my main points. :-)
    Edit: BTW, regarding the Sebbie, keep in mind it is not very ambi friendly. Try this. Pretend you have an injured hand. Now try to open and close it with your other hand. This is why my EDC changed from the Sebbie to the Ritter MK1 (Benchmade Grip).
    Edit: Oh, thanks on the heads-up regarding Tasers in Bellingham. I had no idea.

  13. #28
    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Paul Lincoln View Post
    My experiences would indicate that knives which open by thumb pressure on an extension or in a hole (e.g.-- Spyderco and others) are not viewed by law enforcement as illegal. They are very commonly carried in western Washington without gaining LEO attention.

    As a school administrator, I confiscated a folding knife from a student who had known gang affiliations. It had a blade of about 4.5 inches, and was very "loose." Messing around with the knife, I realized that it could be opened with a flick of the wrist, using centrifugal force. The LEO that I consulted about this said he didn't think it would pass as a "dangerous weapon" because it wasn't designed with the intent to open that way. Likewise, I confiscated and turned over many knives with thumb openers, and none of the students were ever charged under the "dangerous weapon" statute.
    Thanks for sharing your experiences... this is very helpful indeed.

    The problem in Washington (don't know about elsewhere), is that except for state definitions of dangerous weapons (RCW 9.41 I believe), other local governments can enact ordinances that prohibit knives or other weapons. I can probably carry a fixed-blade knife legally in some areas of King County, and certainly in rural areas of the state, but not in Seattle or Spokane city limits. Likewise, although state law is silent about Tasers, some cities like Bellingham make them illegal.

    I wish the state would pass legislation that would give them complete control over all weapons, like they have done on firearms. At least the law would then be consistent everywhere.
    This could turn into a rant. I'll just say that I agree.
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

  14. #29
    VIP Member Array tns0038's Avatar
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    While I often carry a Benchmade auto knife, I more or less think of it as a tool. In all the years Iíve carried a knife, Iíve only used it once as a weapon.

    I was 17 and out of no ware, I got blind side tackled, by a guy who out weighed me by 50-lbs; had me pinned to the ground and commenced to remodel my face. I stuck a 4-inch Panther knife in his gut, and he decided it was best to leave me alone.

    So my advice to you is just get a lock blade pocket knife you can open with your thumb, which you can carry on a clip in your front pocket. As others have said, if it had been illegal for me to carry that knife I used to defined myself, do you think the DA would have not pressed charges? I for one do not want to take the chance.

    Let us know what you decide to do.

  15. #30
    Member Array Blades's Avatar
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    What about carrying an ASP baton??


    Jason

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