Going to MA - anything to watch out for?

Going to MA - anything to watch out for?

This is a discussion on Going to MA - anything to watch out for? within the Defensive Knives & Other Weapons forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; My company is sending me to MA in a month or two for some training. As much as I hate disarming, I'd rather not pass ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array BlackBear's Avatar
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    Going to MA - anything to watch out for?

    My company is sending me to MA in a month or two for some training. As much as I hate disarming, I'd rather not pass up this training.
    So, I have to consider other option. The ones I feel best about that I have on hand are collapsible baton and knives. I had some OC somewhere though it seems to have walked off , but I can pick some up easily before I leave.

    My question to those in the know is twofold:
    a) Do you see any problems with any of these? I don't know what is/isn't legal in MA (I do my damnedest to avoid going there if at all possible) or what cops will frown on.
    b) If there is anything that you don't recommend bringing, or something that you think would be better than what I've listed above, what would that be?

    Thanks in advance.
    I would love to change the world, but they won't give me the source code

    Semper Vigilans et Paratus


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    You can apply for a non-resident permit to carry a handgun for MA.

    Depending on how soon you are being sent and the turn around time, you may be able to get it before you go.

  3. #3
    Member Array BlackBear's Avatar
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    Yeah, I know I can, and considered it, but I was under the impression that it kind of a PITA, and didn't think it would be worth the money for something I'd only use once or twice.

    ETA: It was the training. I squeaked by here in ME with my hunter safety course, but it's not acceptable here anymore, and not acceptable there. So the 60-80 for an acceptable class, plus the 100 for the NR LTC makes it cost-prohibitive for a few trips I might take to MA, especially with a yearly renewal.
    I would love to change the world, but they won't give me the source code

    Semper Vigilans et Paratus

  4. #4
    Distinguished Member Array LenS's Avatar
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    It can take 1-3 months to get a NR LTC . . . only CHSB can tell you what their "queue time" is currently. Cost is $100 and it is only good for 1 year. You will need a firearms course to get your first one and I've received different answers as to whether or not it can be an NRA certificate vs. MA State Police Certified Trainer certificate only wrt NR LTCs (residents have to get the latter).

    You can NOT possess any ammo, OC/Mace or firearms without said LTC unless you are LEO.

    Lock-blade knives are generally OK. Boston has it's own stupid rules that I doubt anyone ever pays attention to, but they are more restrictive than the rest of the state. General opinion seems to be that they only apply to people who are residing in Boston, not to folks who are living outside the city and just working/touring/traveling around the city.

    ASP/batons are a severely gray area. They CAN be charged under MGL Ch. 269 S. 10 (b)

    M.G.L. - Chapter 269, Section 10
    (b) Whoever, except as provided by law, carries on his person, or carries on his person or under his control in a vehicle, any stiletto, dagger or a device or case which enables a knife with a locking blade to be drawn at a locked position, any ballistic knife, or any knife with a detachable blade capable of being propelled by any mechanism, dirk knife, any knife having a double-edged blade, or a switch knife, or any knife having an automatic spring release device by which the blade is released from the handle, having a blade of over one and one-half inches, or a slung shot, blowgun, blackjack, metallic knuckles or knuckles of any substance which could be put to the same use with the same or similar effect as metallic knuckles, nunchaku, zoobow, also known as klackers or kung fu sticks, or any similar weapon consisting of two sticks of wood, plastic or metal connected at one end by a length of rope, chain, wire or leather, a shuriken or any similar pointed starlike object intended to injure a person when thrown, or any armband, made with leather which has metallic spikes, points or studs or any similar device made from any other substance or a cestus or similar material weighted with metal or other substance and worn on the hand, or a manrikigusari or similar length of chain having weighted ends; or whoever, when arrested upon a warrant for an alleged crime, or when arrested while committing a breach or disturbance of the public peace, is armed with or has on his person, or has on his person or under his control in a vehicle, a billy or other dangerous weapon other than those herein mentioned and those mentioned in paragraph (a), shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than two and one-half years nor more than five years in the state prison, or for not less than six months nor more than two and one-half years in a jail or house of correction, except that, if the court finds that the defendant has not been previously convicted of a felony, he may be punished by a fine of not more than fifty dollars or by imprisonment for not more than two and one-half years in a jail or house of correction.

  5. #5
    Member Array BlackBear's Avatar
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    Yeah, I've pretty much discounted the LTC route - for the cost and the time limit.
    I did come across the restriction on OC/Mace when looking into the LTC, and saw there was a class of LTC just for OC.
    Ammo? Really? Wow, reason # 873,398 I don't like MA. From reading that quote, apparently fake plastic nunchaku are not allowed in MA. We're up to 873,399 now. At least they're clamping down on the mall ninjas.

    Yeah, I see where they could work a collapsible baton into "billy or other dangerous weapon" though that particular section seems to only apply to when you're arrested for a warrant, or while committing a breach or disturbance of the public peace. Probably better not to risk it.

    My hopes look dimmer and dimmer.

    ETA: I'm not actually going to Boston, I'm going to Westwood, for whatever difference that makes.
    How about fixed blades?

    ETAA: I can't see any prohibition on fixed blades. This is interesting though: (from MGL Sec. 269-10(b), as quoted above)
    " device or case which enables a knife with a locking blade to be drawn at a locked position"
    This would make Spyderco Wave Enduras illegal in MA, no?
    I would love to change the world, but they won't give me the source code

    Semper Vigilans et Paratus

  6. #6
    Distinguished Member Array LenS's Avatar
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    Spyderco should be fine. I carry a Kershaw Leek everywhere. Switchblades are illegal, but not "assisted opening" knives. I was even (foolishly) demoing how quickly the Leek could open in a three-way discussion with our police chief (who is totally anti-2A) and Supt of Public Works one evening at our high school auditorium before Town Meeting began. The chief didn't even blink.

    You can draw "unintentional attention" with a visible fixed blade knife.

    Westwood is a decent middle-class community. Staying at the Holiday Inn in Dedham or Ramada in Norwood?

  7. #7
    Member Array BlackBear's Avatar
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    The only reason I said the Wave would seem to be illegal is because it allows it to be drawn into a locked position. I'm not concerned about it, I don't own one, it just caught my eye.

    I don't intend to wear a fixed blade strapped on anywhere (and couldn't while in class, anyway) but I'm just looking at my options. Looks like it'll probably be a folder. Well, at least now I've got an excuse to buy a good one.

    And yeah, I'll be staying at the Holiday Inn in Dedham.
    I would love to change the world, but they won't give me the source code

    Semper Vigilans et Paratus

  8. #8
    Distinguished Member Array LenS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackBear View Post
    And yeah, I'll be staying at the Holiday Inn in Dedham.
    I stayed there for a short while when I moved back to MA from CT, some 34 years ago.

    Cinemas across the street, and next door is AAA Police Supply. However unless you are LE, don't bother. They no longer sell guns at all and carry nothing that isn't strictly uniforms, supplies or ammo for LE. They can also sometimes be a bit gruff with non-LEOs.

    A friend told me that Bamboo (Chinese restaurant inside the HI) has a good buffet. I haven't been in the HI since they remodeled it a few years ago, so it's third hand info. Joe's American Bar & Grill has good food, but pricey. The Château is ~3-4 miles South on Rte. 1 and has very good Italian food.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Array Fast Cloud's Avatar
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    Ted Kennedy behind the wheel...
    "Any rationally thinking person is armed" ---Hinds Co. constable John Lewis

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  10. #10
    Member Array GlockAddict's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Cloud View Post
    Ted Kennedy behind the wheel...
    zing

  11. #11
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    next door is AAA Police Supply. However unless you are LE, don't bother. They no longer sell guns at all and carry nothing that isn't strictly uniforms, supplies or ammo for LE. They can also sometimes be a bit gruff with non-LEOs.

    Times have changed there with the above. I used to head into AAA once a month or so back from 76-88 or so. Bought a few Smith revos from them back then.

    I'm glad I'm out of Ma, I had a permit to carry, then a class A hicap permit when they changed the system, from 1972 until 3 years ago when I moved.

    Bostons knife regs are no blade over 2.5", enacted right after 9/11.
    Ma statute 269-10 doesn't mention a state blade length restriction, and there isn't one, even though to a man, the Ma. officers I trained while the defensive edged weapons adjunct instructor for S+W's training division had other opinions.

    I would hold up a 12" bladed bowie and ask them if that knife was illegal to carry in public or under the seat of a vehicle. They would all shake their heads yes.

    I'd pass out 269.10 copies, have them read them, then hold the knife back up for them and ask them the same question. They'd shake their heads in disbelief.

    All this to say, be careful what you carry for a blade in Ma. Not because you wouldn't probably be legal, but there are too many officers in that state that believe there's a blade length restriction.

    I used to carry a reduced copy of that statute in my wallet for any officers who might question the rather long folder I had on me at any time.

    Brownie
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    Quick Kill Rifle and Pistol Instructor

  12. #12
    Distinguished Member Array LenS's Avatar
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    Hi Brownie,

    Times have changed there with the above. I used to head into AAA once a month or so back from 76-88 or so. Bought a few Smith revos from them back then.
    Yes indeed. I remember as a little kid going in there with my late Father and seeing reloading gear setup (and in use) along a bench at the back of that shop, along with a boat hanging from the ceiling. This had to be in the late 1950s-early 1960s. [They run a robust boat business at the same location and my late Father sold them some supplies for that business.]

    Mark is a member of one of my gun clubs and he was telling me that it wasn't worth the hassle to sell guns any more and indeed PDs are going direct, undercutting the local LE dealers (in fact the 1998 law limits what a PD can buy thru MA dealers, while they can buy whatever they want from outside the state).

    I bought the S&W Sigma 40V from Mark . . . although I don't blame him . . . it was a real piece of junk.

    I used to carry a reduced copy of that statute in my wallet for any officers who might question the rather long folder I had on me at any time.
    Which one of your knives?

    You'd blow the mind of any cop that stopped and frisked you.

    Too many LEOs in MA don't know the gun or knife laws (the "bible" for MA gun law for LEOs is a 400 page tome by Chief Ron Glidden) . . . but many of them THINK that they know the laws . . . and they are usually wrong.

  13. #13
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    LenS,

    I forgot about always seeing the boats stacked up next door there.

    Mark is a member of one of my gun clubs and he was telling me that it wasn't worth the hassle to sell guns any more and indeed PDs are going direct

    People I'm still in touch with back in Ma. tell me a lot of the retail shops are going the way of the do do bird in that state. Sad state of affairs, and getting worse all the time. Glad I live in the [ for now ] free state of Az.

    Which one of your knives?

    Back them, there was a folder clipped to each of the front pockets. Every once in awhile, you'd get hastled if an officer saw the clips. It was easier to have the statute with me than have to try to convince the officer he didn't know 269-10b.

    Too many LEOs in MA don't know the gun or knife laws

    I tried to change that through the blade training at the S+W academy whenever I had the chance to do so but it was a hard thing for officers to accept they had violated citizens rights by confiscating what they believed was contraband and/or illegal edged implements.

    Brownie
    The mind is the limiting factor

    Quick Kill Rifle and Pistol Instructor

  14. #14
    Distinguished Member Array Rexster's Avatar
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    Not just for MA, but for anywhere: If you see these words: club, billy, baton, mace, and such, these are words banning impact weapons, and a collapsible baton, such as an ASP, does fall into that category. Some jurisdictions may specifically ban collapsible batons, and others may specifically allow them, but by and large, they get no special mention.

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