Expandable batons in Virginia . . . LEOS know ?? - Page 2

Expandable batons in Virginia . . . LEOS know ??

This is a discussion on Expandable batons in Virginia . . . LEOS know ?? within the Defensive Knives & Other Weapons forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by rhinokrk If your state refers to a lead/metal pipe as illegal, it's illegal. Call your DPS and ask. Huge +1 on training, ...

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Thread: Expandable batons in Virginia . . . LEOS know ??

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array Bob O's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhinokrk View Post
    If your state refers to a lead/metal pipe as illegal, it's illegal. Call your DPS and ask. Huge +1 on training, head shots are a big no no. A baton is still concidered a deadly weapon... how 'bout pepper spray?
    Why are head shots a big no no? You mean if I have have to draw my gun I can't do a head shot? If I can SHOOT to the head why can't I HIT to the head? Just curious...
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  2. #17
    Distinguished Member Array ripley16's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob99VMI04 View Post
    I willl totally believe you if you show me the code that states this.

    The thing is Pocket knives are not covered, but its legal to carry those.
    Pocket knives are defined as folding blade of 3" or less. I see the point you're making regarding the "auto" portion baton or knife. The problem is in the intent or use of a baton. While it could be argued it is a good dog defense, no county prosecutor will buy that as an excuse if it is demonstrated you carry it everywhere.

    One big problem we as citizens face is that LEOs generally refuse to answer the gray area questions, and the court system ignores them. At least that's been my experience.

  3. #18
    Member Array JeffLrrp's Avatar
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    I may be wrong, but I dont think that there is anything in the VA Code that gives a blade limit for a concealed pocket knife. I carry an Endura 4 (3.9 in blade) so I was just wondering.
    “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . .
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  4. #19
    Distinguished Member Array ripley16's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffLrrp View Post
    I may be wrong, but I dont think that there is anything in the VA Code that gives a blade limit for a concealed pocket knife. I carry an Endura 4 (3.9 in blade) so I was just wondering.

    from the State Police web site...
    18.2-308.1.
    A. If any person possesses any (i) stun weapon as defined in this section; (ii) knife, except a pocket knife having a folding metal blade of less than three inches; or (iii) weapon, including a weapon of like kind, designated in subsection A of § 18.2-308,...

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ripley16 View Post
    The problem is in the intent or use of a baton. While it could be argued it is a good dog defense, no county prosecutor will buy that as an excuse if it is demonstrated you carry it everywhere.


    I don't agree since the intent is not in question. Its what you are legally allowed to posses and carry. The way I've always been told is VA code is written to tell you what you are not allowed to

    Quote Originally Posted by ripley16 View Post
    One big problem we as citizens face is that LEOs generally refuse to answer the gray area questions, and the court system ignores them. At least that's been my experience.
    We face that problem with everything we do, whether its driving or carrying. Some times people think arrested=guilty and that is definetly not the case.
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

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  6. #21
    Distinguished Member Array Chooie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ripley16 View Post
    from the State Police web site...
    18.2-308.1 is the code applying to weapons on SCHOOL property, not general statewide carry. There is no statewide restriction on blade length off of school grounds.

  7. #22
    Distinguished Member Array SonofASniper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob O View Post
    Why are head shots a big no no? You mean if I have have to draw my gun I can't do a head shot? If I can SHOOT to the head why can't I HIT to the head? Just curious...
    Your misunderstanding the differences. No head shots was in reference to using an ASP or some kind of a baton. Not a firearm.

    Also understand the difference between lethal and non lethal force. When you deploy a firearm, it is automatically considered lethal force. So it does not matter where you may shoot the person. Just the fact that you are using a firearm puts you in the lethal force category.

    An ASP can be considered a non-lethal weapon. However, the ASP has the potential to cross over into the lethal weapon category depending on how and where you strike the person. Hence no headshots. My department's policy was no strikes on any body part above the waist.

    This is why I say if you are not trained and certified to use those types of weapons, they are more of a liability than an asset. You would probably have a better legal defense if you carried a baseball bat.
    I will support gun control when you can guarantee all guns are removed from this planet. That includes military and law enforcement. When you can accomplish that, then I will be the last person to lay down my gun. Then I will carry the weapon that replaces the gun.

  8. #23
    Senior Member Array Juggernaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffLrrp View Post
    I may be wrong, but I dont think that there is anything in the VA Code that gives a blade limit for a concealed pocket knife. I carry an Endura 4 (3.9 in blade) so I was just wondering.
    Is it concealed? If it's clipped to your pocket to common observation, then the law would not apply to it.
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  9. #24
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    I know this is weird but 2 weeks ago a guy I was with was assaulted by a guy with an ASP at the TGI friday in downtown Fairfax.

    He was at the bar and some guy thought he was hitting on his GF. Anyway to make a long story short. The guy assaulted my friend in the parking lot. Hit him in the head with the ASP. My friends friend took the ASP away from the guy and beat the living snot out of the guy. Apparenlty brook all the bad guys teeth, ripped and pratically took off the guys face.
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

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  10. #25
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ripley16 View Post
    from the State Police web site...
    Quote Originally Posted by Chooie View Post
    18.2-308.1 is the code applying to weapons on SCHOOL property, not general statewide carry. There is no statewide restriction on blade length off of school grounds.
    I have to agree with Chooie. You have to read the entire 18.2-308.1 subA to get it.

    Specifics straight from the VA Legislative Code in case anyone is still confused (found here: Legislative Information System ):
    § 18.2-308.1. Possession of firearm, stun weapon, or other weapon on school property prohibited.

    A. If any person possesses any (i) stun weapon as defined in this section; (ii) knife, except a pocket knife having a folding metal blade of less than three inches; or (iii) weapon, including a weapon of like kind, designated in subsection A of § 18.2-308, other than a firearm; upon (a) the property of any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds; (b) that portion of any property open to the public and then exclusively used for school-sponsored functions or extracurricular activities while such functions or activities are taking place; or (c) any school bus owned or operated by any such school, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

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  11. #26
    Member Array JeffLrrp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ripley16 View Post
    from the State Police web site...
    no more endura for me. thanks for the heads up.
    “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . .
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  12. #27
    Member Array JeffLrrp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chooie View Post
    18.2-308.1 is the code applying to weapons on SCHOOL property, not general statewide carry. There is no statewide restriction on blade length off of school grounds.

    never mind then. i will continue to carry my endura
    “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . .
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  13. #28
    Member Array JeffLrrp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juggernaut View Post
    Is it concealed? If it's clipped to your pocket to common observation, then the law would not apply to it.
    Evidently it doesn't matter. 18.2.308 (the VA Code section that deals with concealed weapons) makes no mention of blade limit. So I carry it then.
    “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . .
    ----- Thomas Jefferson

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  14. #29
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    Your answer on knives is going to come from case law.

    This guy was carrying a large steak knife...
    FindLaw for Legal Professionals - Case Law, Federal and State Resources, Forms, and Code

    This one had a kitchen knife.
    FindLaw for Legal Professionals - Case Law, Federal and State Resources, Forms, and Code

    One of our magistrates issued a warrant for a violation of 18.2-308 under the 'like kind' clause for someone who had concealed an ASP baton. I don't know what happened with this charge when it went to court.

    Randy

  15. #30
    BAC
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    Has it been mentioned yet that use of batons constitute use of of deadly force? Because, you know, it is?

    If you're looking for a less-than-lethal alternative, you're looking into chemical sprays and electronic devices. Not batons.


    -B

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