Stupid Question

This is a discussion on Stupid Question within the Defensive Knives & Other Weapons forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Guys this may be a stupid question... but I noticed visiting Pepper Spray sites that many have a holster you can attach too your belt. ...

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 28

Thread: Stupid Question

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array ErikGr7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    1,108

    Stupid Question

    Guys this may be a stupid question...

    but I noticed visiting Pepper Spray sites that many
    have a holster you can attach too your belt.

    Do you need any permit to carry this stuff? I know
    that if you had a small container on a keyring that
    is what most people do and I know thats ok...but
    what if you have a 4oz bottle in a holster on your
    belt? Many states have different laws. I'm in Texas??

    Still don't have my CCW yet or I would forget the
    pepperspray and carry my Glock instead..lol

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    Member Array smotta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    233
    I don't have an opinion for now, but I know that usually if it's under a certain concentration you can carry it. I would highly recommend NOT carrying both. You may have serious after-incident issues with a zealous prosecutor drilling you on why you used lethal force when less-than-lethal was available.

    Just my .02
    "In God we trust, as for the rest of you... keep your hands where I can see them" - Unknown

  4. #3
    Senior Member Array KenInColo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Western Colorado
    Posts
    991
    Quote Originally Posted by smotta View Post
    I don't have an opinion for now, but I know that usually if it's under a certain concentration you can carry it. I would highly recommend NOT carrying both. You may have serious after-incident issues with a zealous prosecutor drilling you on why you used lethal force when less-than-lethal was available.

    Just my .02
    Good point.
    An armed populace are called citizens.
    An unarmed populace are called subjects.

  5. #4
    Member Array Mxyzptlk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Fairview
    Posts
    147
    Quote Originally Posted by smotta View Post
    I would highly recommend NOT carrying both. You may have serious after-incident issues with a zealous prosecutor drilling you on why you used lethal force when less-than-lethal was available.
    What's the basis for this opinion?

  6. #5
    Member Array smotta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    233
    If you had the option to use less than lethal (pepperspray), even if you were COMPLETELY justified in using full on lethal force, and you lottery the wrong prosecutor you could have quite a rough day. Why take the chance and give them anything to try you on?

    "Mr. XXXX, so, I see here you could have simply pepper sprayed the upstanding alternatively dressed citizen who you CLAIM was 'about to kill you', don't you feel it was murder to blow this upstanding citizen away with your criminally over sized 'out looking for a kill, trigger happy' 1911?"

    edit: re-read OP, replace 1911 with Glock... hehe

    YMMV
    "In God we trust, as for the rest of you... keep your hands where I can see them" - Unknown

  7. #6
    Member Array Mxyzptlk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Fairview
    Posts
    147
    Quote Originally Posted by smotta View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mxyzptlk View Post
    What's the basis for this opinion?
    If you had the option to use less than lethal (pepperspray), even if you were COMPLETELY justified in using full on lethal force, and you lottery the wrong prosecutor you could have quite a rough day. Why take the chance and give them anything to try you on?
    I don't see it. I think it is bad advice.

    Probably well-intentioned. But bad advice.

  8. #7
    Senior Member Array mercop's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    1,067
    Shows once again that people who cannot carry a firearm for whatever reason may end up placing OC in it's place. At least the OP realizes it, many who carry OC don't.

    If you do carry OC and a firearm, make a concious decision where you will carry your OC, strong side or weakside. If you draw it with your strong hand and the need arises for you to transition to your pistol make sure you don't become a victim of task/tool fixation. Train to drop/store the OC and go to gun.

  9. #8
    Member Array smotta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    233
    Your opinion may vary, but why would you do ANYTHING to offer up the prosecutor more ammo?

    If you have reason to use lethal force, drop the scum where he stands and prepare for legal hell. If you don't....run as fast as you can and get the heck outta dodge.

    Not to mention we have seen all to often that OC can be completely ineffective on a large range of individuals, especially those on narcotics. Why waste time using something that may inhibit you getting to the proper tool for the situation? I agree with the poster above me, if you decide to do it, you need to practice practice practice with the combination and make sure that your transition between the two is as smooth and flawless as possible.
    "In God we trust, as for the rest of you... keep your hands where I can see them" - Unknown

  10. #9
    Member Array carver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    East TX
    Posts
    225
    [QUOTE=smotta;961312]If you had the option to use less than lethal (pepperspray), even if you were COMPLETELY justified in using full on lethal force, and you lottery the wrong prosecutor you could have quite a rough day. Why take the chance and give them anything to try you on?

    "Mr. XXXX, so, I see here you could have simply pepper sprayed the upstanding alternatively dressed citizen who you CLAIM was 'about to kill you', don't you feel it was murder to blow this upstanding citizen away with your criminally over sized 'out looking for a kill, trigger happy' 1911?"

    edit: re-read OP, replace 1911 with Glock... hehe

    I agree! Never carry anything but your gun. If you have to use it, the DA won't be able to ask if you could have used less than lethal force. My instructor for my CCW told the class that we should not shoot a perfect score while qulafying. He said that a DA might grab on the fact that you did shot a perfect score (public record), and if present to a jury that if you were that good, then why did you not shoot to wound, instead of shoot to kill! Same thing with home made ammo.
    Y'all be safe now, ya hear!

    The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
    Thomas Jefferson

  11. #10
    Distinguished Member Array ArmyCop's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Chickasaw, AL
    Posts
    1,716
    Probably depends on state laws. Alabama it's okay to carry. How you use it depends on if you get in trouble or not.
    I'd think if attacked - ok to use of course - if someone flips you off and not a physical threat then you might like to spray them but you better hold your temper...
    For God, Family and Country!

  12. #11
    Senior Member Array mercop's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    1,067
    Can't say that I agree with never carrying anything besides your gun. We teach that it is usually a good idea to have something in your hand such as a kubaton, stylus or pen that will allow you to transition to your firearm.

    The reality is that in order to put rounds on the bad guy somehow you need to get the barrel of the gun pointing somewhere on his person. This takes two three things, orientation, time and space. If you are grabbed from behind or involved in some type of scuffle you will need to to create time and space to deploy you pistol and orient it once it is out. Having something in the hand to strike, hook and distract with is a good way to accomplish this.

    Carver, can you get a hold of your instructor and have him give you one case where someone's high qualification score was used against him. I heard this for years coming out of the mouths of police who did not want to put the time in to be good shooters. I cannot think of anything on the civilian side but I do know of cases where police officers poor qualification scores have become an issue. For this reason some agencies now take a digital picture of qualification targets and include it in the officer's file.

  13. #12
    Distinguished Member Array kazzaerexys's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    1,838
    I wouldn't be surprised to see a Gun-Fearing Wussy prosecutor try to use a high-qualification score to argue that, "The defendant could clearly put a pistol round wherever he chose at that distance. Therefore, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, the shot through John Q. Choirboy's heart was not an act of adrenalin-pumped self-defense! No, it was nothing but a cold-blooded execution!!!"

    On the other hand, it wouldn't take much of a defense witness to point out to the jury that sterile range practice does not equate to real-life performance under stress. And if the qualification was on a B27 with the modified 5pt ring that's a foot wide and you are shooting at fifteen feet, the jury ought to be laughing their butts off by the end of the rebuttal.

    I don't agree with smotta. I think he does raise the point that you should think about the way any choice you make may be seen by a prosecutor, though. If you skip the OC and go straight to the gun, you just need to be prepared to explain coherently why John Q. Choirboy's actions left you no choice but to employ lethal force in your own defense.
    “What is a moderate interpretation of [the Constitution]? Halfway between what it says and [...] what you want it to say?” —Justice Antonin Scalia

    SIG: P220R SS Elite SAO, P220R SAO, P220R Carry, P226R Navy, P226, P239/.40S&W, P2022/.40S&W; GSR 5", P6.

  14. #13
    Senior Member Array Cthulhu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Brevard County, FL
    Posts
    1,154
    It's going to depend on your state's laws. In FL, you don't need a permit to carry pepper spray.

    -JT

  15. #14
    Member Array Bando's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Texas somewhere
    Posts
    466
    [QUOTE=carver;961560]
    Quote Originally Posted by smotta View Post
    If you had the option to use less than lethal (pepperspray), even if you were COMPLETELY justified in using full on lethal force, and you lottery the wrong prosecutor you could have quite a rough day. Why take the chance and give them anything to try you on?

    "Mr. XXXX, so, I see here you could have simply pepper sprayed the upstanding alternatively dressed citizen who you CLAIM was 'about to kill you', don't you feel it was murder to blow this upstanding citizen away with your criminally over sized 'out looking for a kill, trigger happy' 1911?"

    edit: re-read OP, replace 1911 with Glock... hehe

    I agree! Never carry anything but your gun. If you have to use it, the DA won't be able to ask if you could have used less than lethal force. My instructor for my CCW told the class that we should not shoot a perfect score while qulafying. He said that a DA might grab on the fact that you did shot a perfect score (public record), and if present to a jury that if you were that good, then why did you not shoot to wound, instead of shoot to kill! Same thing with home made ammo.
    Your from Texas right? I was not aware that a score of my accuracy was recorded. I remember my instructor offering a pass/fail based on the number of shots within the pass/fail minimum. This was 3 years ago, so maybe I'm wrong but I don't think your graded on a scale. This is bad advice regardless. Just because you have less than lethal options does not mean that you had the option of using them. If someone is attacking you with a knife you can, and should shoot them. If someone is trying to have a fist fight with you and you are carrying a firearm, mace might be the only thing keeping you from getting into a physical altercation with a loaded weapon. We cannot assume that the DA is going to ruthlessly attack all persons trying to defend themselves. This is a forum advocating self defense, regardless of the method. More options are always helpful in a self defense situation. I would rather explain myself to a jury than shoot an individual I could have pepper sprayed.
    The Problem: When stupid people do stupid things, smart people end up getting killed.

  16. #15
    Member Array Mxyzptlk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Fairview
    Posts
    147
    Quote Originally Posted by smotta View Post
    Your opinion may vary, but why would you do ANYTHING to offer up the prosecutor more ammo?
    Whoa. You haven't established that carrying OC would hurt in a justified SD shooting.

    The rather obvious benefit of carrying OC is that, well, it is a great tool for some situations. And in those situations, a gun isn't very good tool. Sooooo, having OC lets one use the right tool for the job.


    Quote Originally Posted by smotta View Post
    If you have reason to use lethal force, drop the scum where he stands and prepare for legal hell.
    What happens if you do not have reason (or the right) to use lethal force? Do you still pull out the gun and use lethal force anyway? What kind of lethal uber-legal hell does one have to prepare for then?

    Wouldn't OC be a good thing to have in an incident where you don't have the right/reason to use lethal force? I think so. A gun is not a solves-all-problems tool.


    Quote Originally Posted by smotta View Post
    If you don't....run as fast as you can and get the heck outta dodge.
    Running away to safety, if it can be done, is a fine, fine tactic. Much better than shooting someone. Even better than OCing someone. Cheaper, too.

    I carry a gun every day. Running away (escape) from a threat is my #1 tactic. If I can possibly do it, I will. SA and decisiveness are the keys. I was born while Truman was president, but I can still run, especially when motivated.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Stupid, Stupid, Stupid:Off-duty cop poses as terrorist with a real gun in a hospital
    By nkanofolives in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: June 1st, 2010, 02:17 PM
  2. Probably a stupid question.
    By maddog3241 in forum Defensive Carry Holsters & Carry Options
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: April 10th, 2010, 01:30 PM
  3. kind of a stupid question?
    By Jmac00 in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: April 18th, 2009, 05:23 PM
  4. Perhaps a Stupid Question
    By jayhawk in forum Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: July 14th, 2007, 12:00 AM
  5. Stupid Question....
    By firefighter4884 in forum Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: June 11th, 2007, 11:37 PM

Search tags for this page

cab drivers robbed in albanyh ny

Click on a term to search for related topics.