Possession of a weapon on school property?
This is a discussion on Possession of a weapon on school property? within the Defensive Knives & Other Weapons forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hi,
I figured this might be a great place to ask, also figuring everybody here is probably well acquainted with the laws regarding concealed weapons, ...
April 25th, 2009 02:27 AM
Possession of a weapon on school property?
I figured this might be a great place to ask, also figuring everybody here is probably well acquainted with the laws regarding concealed weapons, and so I'm hoping maybe somebody here could help me out with this. I'm not sure exactly if this is entirely pertinent to this forum, but I did find this site by doing a search and finding a thread with a similar topic, so, here it goes. Here's a story.
Yesterday, my boyfriend and I were stopping by to pick up a friend of his from his friend's high school. We both really, really needed to use the bathroom, and had we not had to pee so bad it hurt, we would've never even left the car. But we did. And my boyfriend was a ******* and shoved his cap gun in his pocket because he takes his cap guns everywhere because, well, I don't know. But entering the school in the first place made me nervous, and I thought the cap gun would've been best hidden in his friend's bag, though that never happened.
And then this is where it gets nasty.
We were loitering around, literally not even for two minutes, waiting for his friend' girlfriend, when the school police officer walks up and tells boyfriend to put his hands up against the wall.
Boyfriend had his knife in his pocket from the other night and didn't even realize it.
Weapon on school property.
I don't know what justified it, but they searched the friend. Friend had a razor.
Weapon on school property.
They were threatening ME, who had nothing on me but my keys and my clothes, with charging me for being "transportation" (oh, lol, so apparently I'm the get-away car? FOR WHAT?), though the school officer dismissed me because the only thing they can do for trespassing on school property is ask you to leave. So I did. Went home. And they dragged my boyfriend and his friend off to the police station for weapons on school property.
And, see, this is where I've got my eyebrows all raised.
Been reading around, and everywhere I look about laws about weapons on school property in the state of Tennessee highlights/italicizes that it's bringing a weapon onto school property with the intent to go armed. My question is, how do I interpret this? Is it intentionally just having a weapon or intending to actually harm somebody? And, I mean, if it's intentionally having a weapon, my boyfriend was about as intentionally armed as somebody who walks into airport security with the wrong kind of keychain. Right here I'm doubting whether the friend could get off if this is in fact the case, having been on campus all day with a razor, but, I mean, seriously.
This is a waste of tax payer money if I ever heard of one.
And the other eye roller is that, once I was half an hour away from the school, I get a call from my boyfriend from the police department saying they want me to turn around and come back because I was TRANSPORTATION. After they'd just let me off the hook. Fortunately I had the sense to call my mom and tell her about it before I made a move, and she told me to stay put while she called my dad (who's, hey, Hamilton Bowen of Bowen Classic Arms actually, haha, annnnd also has a law license) for advice. His advice being come straight home and not to go anywhere near the police station without a lawyer, and if the police station wants me to go down there, they need to call me, not my boyfriend, and now, if they want to talk to me at all, they're talking to daddy. But I include this because... if they're trying to drag me back for being an accessory, I'm just assuming they're probably trying to hammer boyfriend and friend as hard as possible.
But, yes. Bottom line: "armed with intent"? Armed with intent to HARM or intending to be ARMED period?
And again I apologize if this isn't really the place for me to be asking these kinds of questions. I just figured you guys are one hell of a great group of people to seek out for knowledge about this kind of thing, haha.
April 25th, 2009 02:27 AM
April 25th, 2009 03:40 AM
1. a CAP GUN? Are you freakin serious? That should be a separate charge for idiocy.
2. As far as the knive and freakin razor:
The only law re carrying blades in general is "no switchblades" and "not over 4" blade".
HOWEVER, on school property, the ante is raised significantly.
"39-17-1309. Carrying weapons on school property. —
(a) As used in this section, “weapon of like kind” includes razors and razor blades, except those used solely for personal shaving, and any sharp pointed or edged instrument, except unaltered nail files and clips and tools used solely for preparation of food, instruction and maintenance.
(b) (1) It is an offense for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, with the intent to go armed, any firearm, explosive, explosive weapon, bowie knife, hawk bill knife, ice pick, dagger, slingshot, leaded cane, switchblade knife, blackjack, knuckles or any other weapon of like kind..."
And it's a Class E felony.
So, yeah, it could be rather serious.
As far as your being a "transporter", the only thing I can think of is that you could be charged with abetting a crime, in this case a felony, which yeah, could also be rather serious ...
However, are all three of you minors? Like under eighteen?
2 of you being extremely STOOPID minors, I might add?
If they don't drop the charges, yeah, you'll all three have to lawyer up .. my guess is unless your dad actually practices in criminal law, he might not be the best choice ... but knowing as little as I do about the whole thing from your explanation, I'm venturing that you'll have charges dropped (if indeed they even actually file them) and the other two idiots will get off with something less than a felony.
Hopefully, they will, as a felony is not good, and it's not good forever. Couldn't ever get a handgun carry permit, for one thing.
As far as "going armed", that is generally defined by carrying a proscribed weapon period, either a firearm without a permit or an otherwise legal weapon (like a knife) in the wrong place, like a school. Meaning, you don't have to have had the intent to actually harm someone beforehand.
Good luck with all that, and keep us posted...
Actually, you might want to post on:
Tennessee Gun Owners
As there are a number of folks local to you on there, some know your dad's outfit, and there are even a couple of lawyers on board (which, by the way, I am NOT)...
April 25th, 2009 03:49 AM
A cap gun as in a toy,anybody that feels they need to carry a cap gun around must think that if they pull it it will scare away a threat or that since it isn't real they can't get a weapons charge.If you pull a capgun on somebody and they think It's real it may as well be real because you will be charged with aggravated assault minimum,and may bring a fake gun to a real gun fight and get killed.Schools have rules and they are weapon free zones,most adults cannot enter schools without getting permission at the principals office with a pass,you are expected to know the laws pertaining to weapons and the consequences,Ignorance is no excuse.Your friends better get a lawyer,and your lucky you have one,just one more thing why you hanging around with somebody that carrys a fake gun like a wannabe gangsta,you could end up getting shot or killed from his stupidity.Also I don't know anybody carries a razor around with them unless they wanta use it for a weapon.You really might wanta think about your friends you hang with or your dad may not be able to help you someday
"Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
--Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .
April 25th, 2009 03:57 AM
This falls into the category of "zero tolerance" laws. The local authorities make no distinction between a "cap gun" and an "uzi." Some school systems take this to extremes.
I recall a few years ago about a girl in elementary school who brought a sharp knife in her lunch made by her Mom. When the young lady took the metal knife out of her lunch a lunchroom monitor saw the knife. The young lady was taken to the principals office and was later expelled from school for a period of time. I'm NOT kidding!!!
It's these idiotic "zero tolerance" laws that make bringing even toy guns a very serious offense.
Last edited by Pikachu711; April 25th, 2009 at 06:55 AM.
"Gun control is being able to hit your target."
April 25th, 2009 07:46 AM
i remember that...or something similar...sad i tell ya sad
Originally Posted by Pikachu711
April 25th, 2009 07:52 AM
From my point of view there is a major distinction between a "cap gun" & an "uzi." What will it take before the various school districts realize that there are degrees of guilt?
Bringing a cap gun on school property doesn't merit the degree of treatment this young man experienced. Now this one experience will follow him the rest of his life.
One day they will realize that there degrees of offenses.
"Gun control is being able to hit your target."
April 25th, 2009 09:09 AM
Zero tolerance has reached a point of ridicules. It was a bonehead move to carry a cap gun around and take it into a school. Carrying a razor on to school property is also another dumb move. There was a fifteen year old boy killed here because he brought a pellet gun to school and was showing it around. This caused the school to go into lock down. The boy was shot and killed by a swat LEO when he pointed the gun at the LEO. If you all are under 18 they might drop the charges If not you need a good lawyer. Good luck . I hope your friends have learned a valuable lesson from this.
April 25th, 2009 12:09 PM
Depending on how visible your boyfriend's toy gun was, a cop of any kind is probably making a safe guess to treat it as a real gun until he can verify otherwise. If I were in their position, I would've searched him too. The real questions you, and your lawyer, should be asking is whether or not the cap gun constitutes a weapon (it doesn't) or stuffing that cap gun in his pocket creates "intent to go armed" (it shouldn't, unless the cap gun is considered an arm).
The cap gun idea was a dumb one. I hope your boyfriend's figured that out by now. Lawyer up and be ready.
RIP, Jeff Dorr: 1964 - July 17, 2009. You will be missed.
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April 25th, 2009 12:17 PM
This is going to be a very expensive learning experience.
Sorry, but stupidity CAN be very expensive.
Stay armed...but not on school property...stay safe!
"That I cannot do."
"Give this to, uh, Clemenza. I want reliable people, people who aren't going to be carried away. After all we're not murderers in spite of what this undertaker thinks."
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member
April 25th, 2009 12:29 PM
How old are you??? Boyfriend??? I am leary of someone that their first post is such that you describe.
Good on the campus police...lucky no one got shot.
As for degrees (re: cap gun)...many have been shot displaying such a toy. If one is going to play with the "big boys", one should be ready to for the consequences.
April 25th, 2009 12:40 PM
IMO, anyone who 'just has to take his cap gun everywhere
"And my boyfriend was a ******* and shoved his cap gun in his pocket because he takes his cap guns everywhere because, well, I don't know. But entering the school in the first place made me nervous, and I thought the cap gun would've been best hidden in his friend's bag, though that never happened."
is not the brightest bulb. You seem to write a fairly comprehensive OP so what are you doing hanging around with someone like this? Good Lord, girl don't you or your BF have a clue as to what is acceptable to carry onto school property these days. A kid can get busted for carrying aspirin.
Oldogy who is shaking his head and signing off.
And welcome to the forum. Sorry if I came down too hard but that is just too stupid an act to believe.
Last edited by oldogy; April 25th, 2009 at 12:45 PM.
Reason: last comment
Government is out of control
"If gun laws in fact worked, the sponsors of this type of legislation should have no difficulty drawing upon long lists of examples of crime rates reduced by such legislation. That they cannot do so after a century and a half of trying -- " Sen Orrin G. Hatch
April 25th, 2009 01:26 PM
Folks, the cap gun thing was idiotic, but sounds like he's not being charged regarding that.
The boyfriend had a knife.
His friend had a razor.
Sounds like those are the weapons charges.
April 25th, 2009 01:37 PM
I can only tell you of the laws in my State but No weapos are allowed for the most part on school property, and yes transportation of weapons on school property is also a seperate offense that you could be charged for here as well. And trespass on school property is a seperte criminal offense and it sounds like you got off lucky actually.
Originally Posted by cbowen
Its people like you and your boyfriend that mess it up for law abiding citizens. A bunch of kids got massacred at Va Tech because of the stupid gun ban law on campus which made a bunch of "sheep" powerless to stop a "wolf" nutbag immigrant from slaughter. I only wish there would have been just one off duty cop who exercised HR218 or war veteran on the GI Bill with a carry permitt sitting in that classroom that day who decided to not obey the unconstitutional gun free zone sign. When people act the way you and your "boyfriend" did it makes it harder for responsible working taxpaying americans to change the stupid gun ban laws. When you grow up and have your own children in school you will understand how wrong you and your friends were in your actions. Next time you have to pee go in a wood line then wait outside in your cars to pick up the younger "child" like everyone else has to do. When school is in session outside visitors just walking in are not welcome to just come in and roam the halls and with very good reason.
April 27th, 2009 06:47 PM
Zero tolerance is actually zero intelligence. Unfortunately, that's also what was exhibited by the boyfriend. The boyfriend was just stupid. The friend however, should be put away. Carrying a razor on school property all day? I won't buy that it was a mistake, as I might for the boyfriend. And mistakes do happen, but the boyfriend was stupid for having the cap gun, because that was asking to be stopped and searched. I can forgive accidents. I made one once that was far worse and when I realized it, I was terrified, as I could have gone to jail for a long time. I was fortunate that my mistake wasn't discovered. I did correct it as soon as I discovered it. And you can bet that I won't make a mistake like that again.
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