Reverse edge ?

This is a discussion on Reverse edge ? within the Defensive Knives & Other Weapons forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by motorhed66 Excellent! Informed knife disscussion!...Im really likeing the Brock designs also! Mr.Kreins work is excellent and well ...Dozier designs really goes without ...

Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 118

Thread: Reverse edge ?

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array unloved's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Southeastern Pennsylvania
    Posts
    568
    Quote Originally Posted by motorhed66 View Post
    Excellent! Informed knife disscussion!...Im really likeing the Brock designs also! Mr.Kreins work is excellent and well ...Dozier designs really goes without saying...
    You should check out Polkowski Custom Knives - Quality Handmade Knives for the Professional and Adventurer and www.budnealyknifemaker.com as well. If you're looking for something for reverse edge use it'd be a good idea to stay away from anything with finger grooves.

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #17
    VIP Member Array KenpoTex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    SW Missouri
    Posts
    2,193
    *slaps head* can't believe I forgot Polkowski...especially since I used to carry a Companion. (guess that's what I get for posting after working all night)

    Quote Originally Posted by psychophipps

    Especially since 90% of the "advantages" of a REK can be equalized by simply teaching a user of a traditional edge blade how to hold the thing properly. It still blows my mind how many people don't know how to hold a knife correctly for physiological advantage.
    Can you elaborate on that?...
    "Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina

    If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.

    Matt K.

  4. #18
    Member Array motorhed66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    ST.Louis
    Posts
    104
    Al polkowski knives ! I really dig those and have tried to score one for some time buy sauntering by his site every now and again. I see them come up on AZ knives but usally end up short or just missing them. Plain ole forgot about Bud Nealy.good stuff gentlemen!

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    I don't post here anymore...Sorry
    Posts
    2,333
    Quote Originally Posted by KenpoTex View Post
    *slaps head* can't believe I forgot Polkowski...especially since I used to carry a Companion. (guess that's what I get for posting after working all night)


    Can you elaborate on that?...
    Yeah.

    I'd like him to elaborate on that as well, as the last time I was at Tuhon Gaje's seminar, he was teaching Peketi Tersia reverse edge methods too, and when I had an opportunity to talk to him about the Shivworks stuff, he approved of it.

    If Leo Gaje AND SouthNarc are both wrong, I guess I'm confused...

  6. #20
    Senior Member Array psychophipps's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Texas, in the RGV
    Posts
    747
    It was a combination of a comment to Rob72 and 2edgesword's second post, actually. I've not really locked down the multi-source quoting thingy yet. Sorry for the confusion.

    As for "elaboration", I just can't say it via the interwebs without sounding like a complete a**hat so I'll leave it be.

    My main point is that too many people, even martial artists, tend to hold their knives like they're eating dinner rather than fighting for their lives.

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    OK
    Posts
    3,468
    Quote Originally Posted by psychophipps View Post
    Especially since 90% of the "advantages" of a REK can be equalized by simply teaching a user of a traditional edge blade how to hold the thing properly.
    Mmmm. Hammerfist, modified saber...? If so, that gets back to blade size, physio-structure and point orientation, none of which translate as well into forward grip with 3.5" blade. Unless I'm misunderstanding...?

    Again, both have use, but "90%" is hyperbole. Just as REM can't add 3" to your reach, FEM can't offer as effective a return cut (without DE), and REM translates better into use form the cage/guard position.

  8. #22
    Senior Member Array psychophipps's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Texas, in the RGV
    Posts
    747
    Well said, Rob72. I guess what I'm trying to say is that everything is a compromise. You gain one thing by using "x" technique but lose on "y" technique.
    I think the extra 3.5 inches a modified saber gives me a plus that is superior when compared to the stronger back cut I lose, as an example. I call the extra maneuverability of the blade and the increased variety of attacks the modified saber offers a greater plus than the cutting power and raw stabbing energy you can get with a trailing blade, as another example. I think that the raw "git it in 'em" juice out, air in of a stab and twist is often superior to a relatively more shallow slash that might cause more mobility loss, for a third opinion.
    In the grand scheme of things, it really doesn't matter how it gets done so long as it gets done. I seriously doubt there has ever been an ME looking at the corpse of an assailant in a knife SD situation that has commented, "Man, this guy would have been put down a lot faster if the attacker had used reverse-edge techniques. I have no idea what the guy who did this was thinking! What a putz!"

  9. #23
    Distinguished Member Array Rexster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    SE Texas
    Posts
    1,772
    Quote Originally Posted by motorhed66 View Post
    what say you about Reverse edge knives and and their use in defense. I know Shivworks has some stuff out there, anybody else?
    No fighting blade, probably, is as versatile as a "modern" Bowie with a properly-designed sharpened area on the back of the blade nearest the tip, IMHO. This allows back cuts and such. The problem is that so many jurisdictions prohibit such knives, and the concept can only be distilled down to a certain point that is still a fairly large knife. I have seen a true modern Bowie distilled down to 4" of blade, and that seems to be about the minimum. (Strider EB-AC Airwing, which, BTW, is not as massively thick as many other Strider knives.)

    I saw SouthNarc's demo of the Clinch Pick/Disciple concept at a Blade Show in Atlanta, several years ago, when they were still in the prototype stage. This did not convert me totally to edge-in, but opened my eyes to the concept, and as my carry fixed blade at the time was a Spyderco Ronin, which would end up with an edge-in orientation if I grabbed it with my "off" hand, I made it a point to learn some of the Shivworks stuff, and I believe in its effectiveness.

    I often now carry a Clinch Pick, in the manner shown on the Shivworks site and training videos, for deployment in forward grip, edge-in (FGEI) with my gun hand, which is NOT my knife hand, and reverse grip, edge-in, with my left hand, which is my usual carry gun support hand, but IS my primary blade hand.

    FWIW, some historians believe that James Bowie, of fame in Lousiana and Texas history, fought with the early "Bowie" knives, which were single-edged butcher/hunting knives, with a forward grip, edge-in, and this method, plus his skill, earned him the formidable reputation he has to this day. The more familiar-to-us clip-point Bowies came later, probably during James Bowie's lifetime, but after he had earned his reputation with single-edged blades.

    This is logical. If one has trained to counter blades used in a certain way, then a novel, new way, in the hands of a skilled adversary, is an additional burden to deal with. Some traditional martial arts blocking moves are suicide against edge-in tactics.

    Is a dedicated REK knife "worth" it? It is, to me, but I am a blade enthusiast, who also owns such things as custom karambits, and I actually carry a Tarani Masters Model folding karambit daily. I carry a Clinch Pick in certain situations, while wearing certain clothing. I still carry a Ronin in certain clothing, and if I grab it with my one hand, it will be with a conventional blade orientation, and with the other hand, it will be edge-in.

    In an environment where I could not carry a handgun, but could legally carry a fixed blade, I might carry a Disciple, or a custom Pikal blade, but I can legally carry a concealed handgun far more places than a fixed blade knife. And, if I could carry fixed blades, but not a handgun, I might rather the larger fixed blade be an Airwing, or a larger true Bowie, than a dedicated REK.

    Just to be clear, I am a blade enthusiast, largely in the historical and collector contexts, not an accomplished artist of the USE of blades. I have learned some few simple moves to allow me to get to a weapon with more reach, with which I have greater familiarity, such as a firearm or stick. I sought to learn blade stuff in the first place mostly to learn to survive a sudden blade attack long enough to deploy firearms, as I wear a badge.

  10. #24
    Distinguished Member Array Rexster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    SE Texas
    Posts
    1,772
    Y'all keep in mind that SouthNarc's reverse-grip stuff is POINT driven. The sharpened edge is optional; most of the cutting stuff is secondary. A sharpened screwdriver, or other improvised tool, will work with his stuff.

    In fact, his stick-fighting material reflects this. With a collapsible baton in a closed position, it will be used much like a knife held in reverse grip. (This REALLY opened my eyes to a weapon I am authorized to carry, but had viewed with disdain for years.) Same for a small stick used as an improvised weapon. There really is an overall pattern here. SouthNarc teaches integrated stuff, from empty hand to contact weapons to firearms. Only a handful of instructors do this today.

    Guys, even if you don't want to USE edge-in methods, you may well want to learn a bit about it so you don't get your forearms trapped and filleted when you use a traditional martial arts blocking move.

  11. #25
    Senior Member Array psychophipps's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Texas, in the RGV
    Posts
    747
    Quote Originally Posted by Rexster View Post
    Y'all keep in mind that SouthNarc's reverse-grip stuff is POINT driven. The sharpened edge is optional; most of the cutting stuff is secondary. A sharpened screwdriver, or other improvised tool, will work with his stuff.

    In fact, his stick-fighting material reflects this. With a collapsible baton in a closed position, it will be used much like a knife held in reverse grip. (This REALLY opened my eyes to a weapon I am authorized to carry, but had viewed with disdain for years.) Same for a small stick used as an improvised weapon. There really is an overall pattern here. SouthNarc teaches integrated stuff, from empty hand to contact weapons to firearms. Only a handful of instructors do this today.

    Guys, even if you don't want to USE edge-in methods, you may well want to learn a bit about it so you don't get your forearms trapped and filleted when you use a traditional martial arts blocking move.
    Actually, this integration is very common with the instructors of Filipino and Malaysian systems as these arts were designed to use a weapon first, and then backwards integrate the techniques you already know from the weapons into unarmed combatives. Yes, it's bassackwards from most martial arts as we see them in the US, but most martial arts aren't still being used to kill each other by a decent-sized population of folks.

    And it drives my sensei up the frickin' wall that I never use non-striking karate-style blocks except for when he forces us to practice them in class. I even subconsciously change the self-defense drills to non-traditional "blocks" when I practice it outside of class hours but still in the building with my classmates. I have made this swap specifically because of techniques like SouthNarc's I have seen from other sources.

    For the earlier post, Bowie is remembered as having used a forward blade, edge up technique. The Native Americans he ran into largely used grappling in their unarmed combatives so one of his favorite tricks was to stab at their lower abdomen for the typical double-arm push-down block. When they swapped their focus with the blocking arms to a bear hug or other grappling technique, he would push the blade up behind their hips and cut them while pulling the blade up from between their legs while gating with his off-hand. I have practiced this technique quite a bit and I can say with great authority from the reaction I've gotten with a trainer that it would very likely be a fight ender even with a shorter blade than the traditional Bowie shortsword/knife.
    Last edited by psychophipps; May 29th, 2009 at 05:37 PM.

  12. #26
    Distinguished Member Array Rexster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    SE Texas
    Posts
    1,772
    Yep, we Southern boys are a practical lot. Forward-grip, edge-in, is great for coming in low to the abdomen, and nature even provided a nice "pilot hole" to aim for, at grappling distance.

  13. #27
    Ex Member Array United93's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    911
    Quote Originally Posted by psychophipps View Post
    In the grand scheme of things, it really doesn't matter how it gets done so long as it gets done. I seriously doubt there has ever been an ME looking at the corpse of an assailant in a knife SD situation that has commented, "Man, this guy would have been put down a lot faster if the attacker had used reverse-edge techniques. I have no idea what the guy who did this was thinking! What a putz!"
    You can't be serious! Speed of incapacitation is extremely important.

  14. #28
    Senior Member Array psychophipps's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Texas, in the RGV
    Posts
    747
    Quote Originally Posted by United93 View Post
    You can't be serious! Speed of incapacitation is extremely important.


    That being said, does it really matter if you did the aforementioned with a leading or trailing blade grip? A straight or serrated edge? With a drop point or tanto? Traditional stroke or an inverted edge stroke?

    Everything is a trade-off. It's better here but isn't as good there. More power for this stroke but not that stroke. Extra range but less power up close. More muscle damage but less chance of hitting a major blood vessel. Etc...Etc...

  15. #29
    Ex Member Array United93's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    911
    Yes, and you must therefore use the tool that has the attributes that you will most likely need. A fight, as I think you found out when you were 19, is often not conducted at medium range, with the combatants swiping at each other. Often, it ends up in close or on the ground. There, better close range power and muscle rending ability would certainly be a plus. In addition, as someone pointed out, the reverse-edge method alows one to be in a boxing stance with the hands close to the face.

  16. #30
    Senior Member Array 2edgesword's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    653
    "the reverse-edge method alows one to be in a boxing stance with the hands close to the face."
    Reverse grip, edge out also allows for a boxing stance with the hands close to the face and sharp edge facing the attacker.

    As someone else mentioned there are pros and cons to each method.

    One of the benefits of teaching standard grip is that most individuals have been using a knife in standard grip for as long as they have used a knife. Reverse grip skills (edge in or out) requires learning a whole new set of mechanics. Taking existing skills and fine tuning them to make them more effective is an easier process then developing a whole new set of skills.

    Of course the wider your range of skill sets the better but if I had a student with limited time to quickly learn a basic set of skills I'd focus on teaching standard grip skills.

Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Aiwb-tuckable-reverse cant ??
    By KRLY in forum Defensive Carry Holsters & Carry Options
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: June 8th, 2010, 07:10 PM
  2. A 'reverse' home invasion
    By paramedic70002 in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: October 13th, 2009, 12:35 AM
  3. reverse graffitti
    By wendywc in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: September 13th, 2007, 01:40 PM
  4. Reverse Alchemy.
    By Pete in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: March 11th, 2007, 10:32 PM
  5. Reverse Logic!
    By Deke45 in forum The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: May 21st, 2005, 07:13 AM

Search tags for this page

bob malvagno bio
,

left handed reverse edge bowie knife

,
reverse blade bowie knife
,
reverse bowie knife
,
reverse edge bowie
,

reverse edge bowie knife

,
reverse edge knife
,

reverse edge knives

,
reverse edged bowie knife
,
reversed edge bowie knife
,
shivworks disciple
,
shivworks disciple for sale
Click on a term to search for related topics.