How's your knife... - Page 2

How's your knife...

This is a discussion on How's your knife... within the Defensive Knives & Other Weapons forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Rob72 The Chinook and Scimitar have upswept points, that in a jab, are already predisposed to curve off the line of penetration, ...

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  1. #16
    Ex Member Array United93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob72 View Post
    The Chinook and Scimitar have upswept points, that in a jab, are already predisposed to curve off the line of penetration, and will more easily de deflected by bone, keyrings, heavy stainless snaps on a jacket, etc..
    If a bone, key, or heavy stainless snap is in your way, isn't it better to deflect off to the side and cut a new wound channel, instead of butting up against said hard object with a strait blade and having to twist and move it to get it unstuck?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob72 View Post
    Cold Steel's knock-off
    You are referring to the AK-47, right? Why is it a knock-off?


  2. #17
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by United93 View Post
    If a bone, key, or heavy stainless snap is in your way, isn't it better to deflect off to the side and cut a new wound channel, instead of butting up against said hard object with a strait blade and having to twist and move it to get it unstuck?
    It's rare for blade to "get stuck" in a body, and in part the idea comes from serrations and rough grinds that were on bayonets. If the point is "in-line", it will generally carry the obstructing object partially into the wound channel. The depth of the wound may be shallower than it would have been otherwise, but it is still a deep penetrating wound(>2-3"). If the point is not in-line, and is further deflected, it will create a "slashing" wound (<1"depth). Obviously, this is a generality, but true of the multiple knifings I have run, and in line with what I was told by a gentleman who used a knife extensively in WWII.

    You are referring to the AK-47, right? Why is it a knock-off?
    Common knowledge in the knife community- Lynn Thompson didn't want to waste precious time(and money) licensing the Wave from Emerson, so he simply ran off several thousand units and got them out as fast as he could. Beyond the semi-wave feature(the reason Suarez notes it), the AK47 is no different than any other folder.

  3. #18
    Senior Member Array psychophipps's Avatar
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    Good stuff, Rob72. Thanks for the info.

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Question hmmmmmm

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob72 View Post
    Okay, not uncommonly on the Ballistics forum, we note that penetration is the "fight-stopper" measure for HG rounds. Strangely, it is discounted with knives. BREAK His philosophy is the same as mine: it doesn't matter if I have to use zip-guns and pipe-bombs, I. Will. Go. Home.
    I was always told by the special forces instructors at the Infantry School that bullets kill faster than (most) knives because of the bullet cavity and shock of the entrance and possible larger exit wounds. Whereas a knife lacks this feature. Knife victims have to collapse from "hydraulic failure" by bleeding out and they may not even know they've been stabbed if they're on drugs or even just adrenalin. There isn't a nervous system cutoff switch for a blade like the cranio-ocular shot (cranial vault) would be with a bullet.

    Nevertheless, I fully agree with your last four words and echo them: I. Will. Go. Home. Whatever it takes to see my family again, from a knife to a nuke.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  5. #20
    Senior Member Array unloved's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier View Post
    Knife victims have to collapse from "hydraulic failure" by bleeding out and they may not even know they've been stabbed if they're on drugs or even just adrenalin. There isn't a nervous system cutoff switch for a blade like the cranio-ocular shot (cranial vault) would be with a bullet.
    This is exactly why I think that cutting is generally preferable to stabbing. I'm not talking about slashing. I mean forward grip-edge up cuts directed mainly at the armpits (brachial arteries) and groin (femoral arteries).

  6. #21
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Talking Cutting?

    Quote Originally Posted by unloved View Post
    This is exactly why I think that cutting is generally preferable to stabbing. I'm not talking about slashing. I mean forward grip-edge up cuts directed mainly at the armpits (brachial arteries) and groin (femoral arteries).
    LOL I had a friend in special forces got into a problem in Thailand when he was on block leave after some "training." He was alone in an alley between two clubs and got jumped by a whole pile of guys. He didn't even know how many. He just dropped straight to the ground and pulled as many on top of him as he could as he got a small but very sharp folder out. I want to say Spyderco Delica but I'm not certain. Might even have been a Buck Ranger. Anyway, he told me he just started grabbing legs and CUTTING Achilles tendons. Said most barely knew they'd been cut. He crawled out of the pile and trotted away. One by one they tried to stand up to pursue him and.... You can guess. No achilles tendon, no standee upee. Said the last thing he saw as he trotted up to where some of his team was waiting was this gang of ghouls or zombies trying to half drag half crawl as they moaned and screamed in the dark. Sounds like zombies to me, too.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  7. #22
    Senior Member Array unloved's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier View Post
    LOL I had a friend in special forces got into a problem in Thailand when he was on block leave after some "training." He was alone in an alley between two clubs and got jumped by a whole pile of guys. He didn't even know how many. He just dropped straight to the ground and pulled as many on top of him as he could as he got a small but very sharp folder out. I want to say Spyderco Delica but I'm not certain. Might even have been a Buck Ranger. Anyway, he told me he just started grabbing legs and CUTTING Achilles tendons. Said most barely knew they'd been cut. He crawled out of the pile and trotted away. One by one they tried to stand up to pursue him and.... You can guess. No achilles tendon, no standee upee. Said the last thing he saw as he trotted up to where some of his team was waiting was this gang of ghouls or zombies trying to half drag half crawl as they moaned and screamed in the dark. Sounds like zombies to me, too.
    Nice. Gruesome, but nice. Forward grip-edge up is also a good grip for hooking and cutting hamstrings and Achilles' Tendons.

  8. #23
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Gruesome?

    Quote Originally Posted by unloved View Post
    Nice. Gruesome, but nice. Forward grip-edge up is also a good grip for hooking and cutting hamstrings and Achilles' Tendons.
    Sorry, it must be the way this guy told it but he had me consumed in giggles and guffaws the whole time. Must be my sick sense of humor. Hang around the Snake Eaters long enough and you develop humor like theirs.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  9. #24
    Senior Member Array unloved's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier View Post
    Sorry, it must be the way this guy told it but he had me consumed in giggles and guffaws the whole time. Must be my sick sense of humor. Hang around the Snake Eaters long enough and you develop humor like theirs.
    Oh, I'm giggling myself. It's just that whenever I hear a story like that, I can't help imagining what it might feel like.

  10. #25
    Senior Member Array psychophipps's Avatar
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    Don't think it's just the high-speed/low-drag types. My Kajukenbo sensei was the same way and had many a similar story.
    My favorite was when he and his sensei went to a bar one time. Some idiot was ticked off at his sensei over something or other and decided to stab the old guy in the shoulder near his clavical with a switchblade in an ice pick grip. Well, the stabber seemed to have an idea that this would be some sort of devastating finishing blow or something. The old guy just turned to look at his assailant with the ol' Animal in full effect and the knife still in his shoulder with the stabber's hand still gripping the handle and told him, "Take it out." The stabber, looking rather sheepish now, slowly pulled the blade free and stood there rather uncertainly with this bloodied knife in his hands. "Now run", was all the old man finished with and the punk pulled a full-on jack rabbit while the crazy old coot went back to his beer without another word being said about it.

  11. #26
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier View Post
    I was always told by the special forces instructors at the Infantry School that bullets kill faster than (most) knives because of the bullet cavity and shock of the entrance and possible larger exit wounds. Whereas a knife lacks this feature. Knife victims have to collapse from "hydraulic failure" by bleeding out
    True- the blade's "terminal capacity" is only achieved with penetration. The aorta, vena cava, femoral artery, even the carotid won't be touched with less than 1" penetration, right? (Yes, the carotid is differentially closer to the surface, but cannot be reached without a directed poke or a cut through the trachea and the SCM.)

    Equally, an uber-high velocity round (let's say a 5.7 sp loaded to absloute maximum) will disentegrate within roughly 3/4" or at first contact with bone. This is the "controversy" over 115gr @1300+ fps vs 147gr @ 900fps in 9mm and 160 somethingorother gr vs 240gr in .45.

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