Unarmed Combat and Martial Arts

[Hopyard]

Er yeah, we digress. Discussing origins of style is like discussing politics, everybody has their own view.

My view is that various forms of martial arts are indigenous to almost every culture, constantly being absorbed, influenced and changed by martial arts in other cultures. This is a Good Thing. To prove a martial art began in a particular place and time is impossible, and more importantly, doesn't really matter. For example, the "Shaolin Kung Fu" most Americans are so enamored with "began" not in China, but was derived from Indian influences, which in turn were heavily influenced by Greek Pankration. Of course all of that history matters not a whit in terms of the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of the martial art.

It usually only matters to instructors who are trying to make their art sound "mystical and oriental" in order (in their mind) to better market their style...

See-"Martial Arts in the Modern World — Home — Greenwood Publishing Group — www.greenwood.com
Martial Arts in the Modern World. Edited by Thomas A. Green and Joseph R. Svinth. ISBN: 0-275-98153-3. ISBN-13: 978-0-275-98153-2 ..."

Sometimes it is a slog, because it is intended for anthropology students. Decent job of describing the origins of various arts. Sometimes the historical background is fascinating.

I've met the author. Fascinating fellow.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[logically]

I personally try to avoid the debates about origins and all the silly "politics" of MAs. I just try to have fun and learn how to defend myself better.

However i do enjoy talking about martial arts and about differences and similarities between styles. Just as long as it doesn't turn into a "who's is better" debate

But I really think that taking any martial art, whether a realistic street fighting art or not is good for your body and mind. And I try to encourage people to train hard, because you really only get back what you put in to your training, no matter what your style.

[RongXanh]

Having done Krav Maga for a year, I can tell you it was well worth the money. Now the place I did it, I did sign a one year contract but that was because it was cheaper for me to do one year than to do it month by month. I would go back to it in the future to go further in training when I have more free time. Such is a rare thing in college.

Anyways, the class was structured into basic, intermediate, advance, and advance II. At the time i did the class, they only taught basic and intermediate at my location but they had more advance classes at a location 20 miles away. Problem was there just wasn't enough students initially at the Boulder school. Of course, now its full and jammed pack every week.

Anyways, the basic class taught me basic fighting skills but above all, it taught you how to fight, and how to keep fighting under duress. Training to push past exhaustion and against multiple targets was key. This class will push you. Intermediate started teaching more things like ground defense, other maneuvers often encountered in fights, knifes, blunt weapons, and handgun defense. I highly recommend it.

Also, my instructor was an ex-marine, ex-blackwater employee. Tough but a good teacher.

[Cupcake]

Only an observation...somewhere a while back someone pointed out that Jiu Jitsu does you no good if your opponent brings buddies. I accept this point, but would like to point out that if you happen to face just one opponent and all you have is a stand up game, you are similarly screwed if your opponent has some grappling skills. I'm too slow to be great at a striking art, but I can drag a striker to the ground like a gazelle and take away their ability to strike effectively. Yes, I'm under-prepared for multiple opponents... hopefully I won't be in a gun-free zone on that day.

[Quicksabre]

Only an observation...somewhere a while back someone pointed out that Jiu Jitsu does you no good if your opponent brings buddies.

I don't think it was meant to say 'NO good' but more like 'limited good.'

As you noted, having only stand-up skills leaves you weak in other areas - you need to be well-rounded. Stand-up, skilled in long (in MA terms), medium, and short range. Ground fighter/grappler, smart enough to know when it's not a good time for that.

I will say that IMHO unlike you often hear the pure ground-fighting salesmen say, every or even most fights do NOT go to the ground, even one on one.

Of course, a weapon is a more efficient multiplier of force than your bare hands/feet anyhow, yet as with everything else, not always applicable or appropriate.

The key is to be well-rounded, do your homework and find a good instructor, and do not get hung up on a particular style-of-the-month.

[psychophipps]

Multiple opponents sucks...PERIOD. I don't care if you're into Tae Kwon Do, Arnis/Silat, Kajukenbo, Karate of some ilk, Judo, or any other style under the sun. Anyone who tells you otherwise is selling snake oil.

[Hopyard]

Multiple opponents sucks...PERIOD. I don't care if you're into Tae Kwon Do, Arnis/Silat, Kajukenbo, Karate of some ilk, Judo, or any other style under the sun. Anyone who tells you otherwise is selling snake oil.

What you wrote is a word of sanity in the SD realm.

One of the things I've found offputting about formal training in some of the oriental arts is the emphasis on forms, especially when they are choreographed responses to multiple attackers. Maybe getting it into muscle memory is good, but I have to wonder how beneficial these are in the real world.

I've practiced some beautifully choreographed stuff, but what's the old saying? "battle plans go out the window with the first shot?"

[psychophipps]

What you wrote is a word of sanity in the SD realm.

One of the things I've found offputting about formal training in some of the oriental arts is the emphasis on forms, especially when they are choreographed responses to multiple attackers. Maybe getting it into muscle memory is good, but I have to wonder how beneficial these are in the real world.

I've practiced some beautifully choreographed stuff, but what's the old saying? "battle plans go out the window with the first shot?"

Mike Tyson and mercop sum it up pretty well as, "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face." Please pardon my potential paraphrasing.

Forms have their place in that they teach footwork, transitions between techniques, some phenomenally effective techniques if dissolved and interpreted correctly (and most instructors have not done this), and discipline. Looking at them as the "end all, be all" of self-defense is ridiculous, short-sighted, and naive (which all too many of we Americans are guilty of).

[stevem174]

The formal rituals of many MA just aren’t for me.

I would like to take Krav Maga classes, however the closest school is over 2 hours away from me. So for now, I practice on my own.

[chiboxer]

My Gung-Fu instructor spelled out the reasoning behind forms fairly well. Our art has lots of styles: Tiger, Dragon, Snake, Crane, Wing Chun, etc, etc. So for a Gung-Fu man that hasn't practiced a particular style for a lengthy period of time, a form acts like a notebook allowing him/her to quickly "remember" the style and be back into fighting form with it. Also if you are unable to go to formal class, the forms will keep you sharp...

[Guardian]

It's all good I've put 20+ years in (Danny Anderson's) American Freestyle Karate (Modified for Security Police Duties). I've dabbled in TKD, Kenpo. I've had HTHC while in the Military and I'm starting to take an interest in the Reality Based Personal Protection Training.

I've also learned from some darn good instructors over the course of time that any Self-Defense training whether through the MAs or just SD Styles/Systems is only as good as the individual putting the effort into it. I respect all styles/systems.

[Eagleks]

I've seen too many schools getting only into 'form' and 'tournaments', obtaining a belt (notice I did not say 'earning' ) and forgetting what and why they are learning it.

[AtlantaSW40]

Muay Thai and Brazilian Jujitsu here....Did Muay Thai competitively for a while until I was injured. I used to get into bar fights often....and as soon as I started training i no longer wanted anything to do with it. I also dabbled in Kali mostly because I wanted to learn how to use a batton/knife better. Also since my training I've started carrying a firearm and knife daily as well......I've not been in any confrontation of any sort that turned physical since I've started carrying or training...so hard to say what I would do in an escalated altercation....obviously if my attacker was wielding a weapon I would go for mine.

Bottom line is I no longer feel I have "**** to prove" by instigating fights. I know I can inflict pain and punishment at any given time..and just knowing is enough for me.

[mercop]

In any "art" their needs to be a great emphasis on anatomy. Hurting and healing, only difference is the application.

[wormtown]

In any "art" their needs to be a great emphasis on anatomy. Hurting and healing, only difference is the application.

Agreed. Though if one is doing a traditional Chinese martial art, there may be anatomies that are not well represented in a Netter's Atlas, but are nonetheless integral to the "art" and the art is incomplete without them.

Unfortunately these are often taught only to "advanced" students or disciples, if taught at all. Part of the culture of secrecy that is one of the major negative aspects of traditional CMA.