Unarmed Combat and Martial Arts - Page 5

Unarmed Combat and Martial Arts

This is a discussion on Unarmed Combat and Martial Arts within the Defensive Knives & Other Weapons forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I don't do any type of martial arts. I use SCARS training....

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Thread: Unarmed Combat and Martial Arts

  1. #61
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    Array Bark'n's Avatar
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    I don't do any type of martial arts. I use SCARS training.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."


  2. #62
    Senior Member Array surefire7's Avatar
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    Sorry you haven't experienced real TKD. Olympic-style TKD won't help you on the street. The TKD masters I know can handle themselves on the street. TKD isn't "flashy". One punch-one kick kill is ITF-USTF motto.

  3. #63
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  4. #64
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    I just started Krav Maga. I took some karate as a young teen, but barely remember anything other than thinking it was worthless.

    KM has no rules. So for those who mentioned not training dirty moves because you can't use them in competition, you might want to look at KM instead. It's not competition oriented. It's purely defense oriented.

    My school teaches armed and empty hand skills. It is also an over-the-top intense workout.

    My mom was interested in it, but she's in her late 60's. I'm afraid 30 seconds of KM warmup would kill her, let alone a full class.

    I have wondered whether KM becomes useless with age.

    That said, I'm female, with poor upper body strength, a crappy shoulder, and I still feel confident that KM will get me some good skills in armed and empty hand fighting, within 6 months.

    In one class, I'd say my fight skills already improved 1000%, but that's not saying much.

    I have signed up for a year contract. I plan to do fof fighting within 3 months of 3x/week training. We'll see if I attain that goal (and see whether I go back a 2nd time after a real fight.)

    I picked KM because
    - it is purely focused on SD with no focus on competition
    - no rules - groin, eye gouging, and many other dirty fight techniques are trained and encouraged
    - no philosophy other than NEVER QUIT
    - training includes defending against weapons and also focuses on things like improving SA
    - women are trained in it in Israel

  5. #65
    Member Array Random's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by surefire7 View Post
    Sorry you haven't experienced real TKD. Olympic-style TKD won't help you on the street. The TKD masters I know can handle themselves on the street. TKD isn't "flashy". One punch-one kick kill is ITF-USTF motto.
    I assume that's directed at me. I don't doubt what you're saying, but I certainly haven't seen it. Wouldn't mind, though!

  6. #66
    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    There is a difference between *** (Olympic style) and ITF (hard style sport). TKD is still a sport more than a defensive martial art, depending on the instructor.

    My instructors are both former Army, Infantry and a Nurse, so they compliment each other well. This helps as they are also married to each other. They learned from an instructor who mixed TKD and Kenpo, which they also teach. They are now Krav students and will begin to incorporate that when they reach a certain level and are proficient enough to teach it.

    I have been told by the Sr. instructor that he has made it a point to not go to ATA since that is only a certification fee regulated and not so much skill related. Our instructors also tell us which moves, forms, etc are for the sport and which can be used for self defense. For example he has flat out said the palm press block has no real life application but done right looks cool in a form.

    As others have said, a school that teaches more than one discipline is better, I also like to add if they have any real fighting experience (where life was on the line like LEO or Military) it will only add to the lessons.
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

    -Paco
    http://www.shieldsd.net

  7. #67
    Senior Member Array mercop's Avatar
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    Since this is primarily a firearms forum I would like to know what other martial artists do to blend their pistol skills into their overall skill set?- George

  8. #68
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    I'm pretty much the opposite as I have pretty limited firearms training. I'm slowly blending my firearm into the other stuff that I have learned over the years.

  9. #69
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    I took a year of private lessons Jeet Kune Do. It's really an excellent fighting system that combines elements of many other styles. My instructor was trained by a person who was trained by Bruce Lee. He is really quite good.
    Me on the other hand am not so good. Very slow learner when it comes to fighting.
    I did improve my confidence a lot during that year, and I think I have the basics of a fight down.
    Most fights can be won in this style using a simple technique of deflection,forward pressure, the finish !
    Deflection can be anything from an eye gouge, to a kick in the shin, to a feign movement.
    Forward pressure is mostly just what it says. Punch straight and continuously leaving no time for recovery between strikes.
    The End, is when you have the head/neck area in your hands and the opponent is yours at that point, as long as you continue to inflict damage without letting up.

    It's a very direct and efficient fighting style, but like all of them, you only get out what you put in. If you don't continually practice and keep the skillset up, you lose it.
    At least I learned the basics, like how to breathe while sparring, how to stay loose, how to block with my elbows and knees, and as I said, confidence.

    I took 3 months of defensive Tai Chi last year before I stopped going. Now that' s a cool fighting style/art. It takes a lot of patience, dedication and a lifetime to master, but I believe if mastered it is one of the best. I am much more taken with the internal martial arts for long term study/practice.

    Peace,
    Floyd

  10. #70
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    Blending--re:mercop

    Quote Originally Posted by mercop View Post
    Since this is primarily a firearms forum I would like to know what other martial artists do to blend their pistol skills into their overall skill set?- George
    Great question and interesting. To my mind the big issue in blending martial arts and pistol skills is that the former requires closing with the opponent and the latter requires making space--blending I suppose would also include somehow pulling off a belly shot while closely engaged.

    I don't think the instruction I have had so far is geared toward blending the two as the MA world seems like it is populated by folks with a very different viewpoint from us pistoleros, and lots of the MA instructors are not gun people at all.

    Anyway, you are correct that we should be thinking about and learning about blending the two in a seamless fashion which allows for deliberate deescalation or escalation of the violence as the situation unfolds.

  11. #71
    Member Array grifft's Avatar
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    No MA experience but have taught defensive moves quite a few years. Had good results over the years. Getting to old know so I will just use my weapon or knife or car or whatever

  12. #72
    Member Array fwellers's Avatar
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    I have a question about the use of unarmed defense while 'heeled'.
    What are the thoughts on that from experienced CC'ers.

    My thoughts/concerns are this:
    Suppose I am attacked without an option of getting away. Suppose the person is near my size but I have no way of knowing if he can take me or not.
    I may be able to convince the law that using a gun ( deadly force ) was necessary because I have no idea what the person would do to me in case he won the altercation. He could kill me while I'm down by smashing my head in with his heels. Who knows right ?

    On top of that, I don't want to have hand to hand combat with him, because there is a chance my concealed weapon would be found out and used against me.

    Given those two "facts", what should be done ? How can you really mix it up with somebody mano a mano, while you have a gun in a hip holster ? Doesn't seem smart. Seems that if you're carrying, there is only one option when confronted with unavoidable force.
    And that's not a good thing no matter how you slice it.

    So what would you do if you're carrying and an unarmed person corners you trying to mug you or do some violent act to you. The law says force to match the force used against you, but as I said, hand to hand doesn't seem smart when you're carrying.

    Thanks .
    floyd

  13. #73
    Member Array wormtown's Avatar
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    Wing Chun. Very efficient and direct. Good for older people, younger people. Simultaneous defense and attack. Knife and sticks as well. Bruce Lee's original style.

    I agree it is not so much style as the school/teacher, and especially the fighter.

    @fweller's excellent questions:
    Aside from work/clothing issues, this is one reason I have been favoring pocket carry. Smartcarry may be even better.

    Anyway, you are correct that we should be thinking about and learning about blending the two in a seamless fashion which allows for deliberate deescalation or escalation of the violence as the situation unfolds.
    I think this is very important, as the situation is not often clear at the beginning. If you don't know any other techniques than drawing, you have no other options.

    My strategy is a)don't get in fights b)train as much as you can. This gives you options. c)don't get in fights d)train retention as well as shooting e)don't get in fights

    blending martial arts and pistol skills is that the former requires closing with the opponent and the latter requires making space
    Make space/get to cover. If you are using MA, the space should already be closed when the violence starts (or you could have had time to make space). While that likely represents a failure of situational awareness, that can and does happen. So use open hand techniques to make space, then reevaluate.

  14. #74
    New Member Array JT1JT1's Avatar
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    judo, aikido and muay thai. the last two extensively. love 'em all but given the nature of this audience and our shared interest, let me note this: aikido evolved from a form of budo practiced by guys mostly concerned about being able to draw, employ and retain the weapon of their day, often in the face of multiple bad guys. Just something to consider if you think you're interested in MIXED martial arts.

  15. #75
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    Kick to make space

    Quote Originally Posted by wormtown View Post
    Make space/get to cover. If you are using MA, the space should already be closed when the violence starts (or you could have had time to make space). While that likely represents a failure of situational awareness, that can and does happen. So use open hand techniques to make space, then reevaluate.
    Just one situation, my instructor was jamming me as we boxed and I was being forced backward. He pointed to his belly and told me to kick. The point, a good kick can push your opponent back and make space. Open hand techniques should not be limited to the hands.

    In our unarmed practice session arm to arm (mano a mano), a well placed kick followed by a good solid punch would have created the needed time and space to draw--- but in a real life situation where the aggressor was apparently unarmed there would be no (or only speculative and questionable) justification for use of the gun. Maybe better to wrap or trap and go for a throw.

    Again, a certain amount of gratefulness extended to Mercop for the way he posed his question. I'd not been thinking about "blending" the MA with the gun except in terms of having an option; now I'm thinking about how the two skills can complement each other.

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