Unarmed Combat and Martial Arts

This is a discussion on Unarmed Combat and Martial Arts within the Defensive Knives & Other Weapons forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; In this thread I invite everyone with martial arts experience to tell us a little about your style and why you like it. How does ...

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Thread: Unarmed Combat and Martial Arts

  1. #1
    Ex Member Array United93's Avatar
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    Unarmed Combat and Martial Arts

    In this thread I invite everyone with martial arts experience to tell us a little about your style and why you like it. How does it help you defend yourself in the real world? Is that even why you study it? Feel free to post YouTube vids to demonstrate something or make a point. Also, stick fighters and knife users are welcome to take part.

    I know we have done this kind of thread before, but not for a while, and I think it should be informative.

    Please note: While good discussion would be great, let's not bash anyone or their opinions and preferences.

    I'll start:
    I have been studying MMA for several years now. I believe in being able to fight effectively at the three ranges of unarmed combat: kicking, punching, and grappling (both standing and on the ground), and MMA is great for this. We spend a lot of time on all three. Kicks help with balance, and I think they have their place in the defensive toolbox. Long periods of time spent throwing combos against a heavy bag without respite train the mind and the body to keep going even when it's hard, and there is no workout quite like a 3-min. round of free grappling, even when you're getting your butt kicked. Throws teach you to get a person with superior boxing and / or kicking skills to the ground, and are really fun to learn / use.

    I do wish the training incorporated some weapons (Bo, Jo, knives, escrima, etc.).Those are never used in the octagon, but knowing how to use them could be useful on the street. Also, we do not learn eye gouges, groin strikes, or the like (again, because they are banned in competition).

    Please, let me know what you like and why.

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    Distinguished Member Array jarhead79's Avatar
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    Shindo Jinen Ryu Karate-do.

    Mostly to do something with my son. Honestly can't say I'd be able to use it on the street, thus far. We've been doing it less than a year and I'm a Green Belt. For the record, my son has his blue belt. He doesn't let me forget it, either.
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    Member Array Monkeytown's Avatar
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    1994-1998: Black Belt in Isshin Ryu Karate
    1999-2000: freestyle kickboxing
    2001-2002: Jeet Kun Do
    2006-2007: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu/MMA type training

    I have a long history of studying MA but have not spent enough time in any to be an expert. I like the jkd and bjj the best however my jkd instructor had kids and stopped training and the bjj ended when my son was born. I hope that some of what I have learned would help on the street, however my biggest weakness now would be gassing. I workout 4 days a week, but mostly weights. I have never experienced cardio training like bjj rolling and felt like I was in the best cardio shape while doing that. Hopefully some day soon and I can back to the bjj/mma training. I have no interest in getting in the ring/octagon (as I am 37 y/o), but like United93, I think this is one of the best ways to train multiple ranges of fighting.

    I have never been in street fight in my life. I am 6'4" and a solid 255lbs. so I don't get a lot of trouble makers coming my way. I also carry myself in such a manner as to not draw a lot of attention from trouble makers (i.e. I am not a loud mouth, braggard, smart a$$, etc.).

    MT
    "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." Benjamin Franklin

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    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    I have been studying Taekwondo for the past year or so, mainly because my kids' instructors also offer a class for Parents, which means all 4 of my kids and me and my Wife all participate.

    I doubt if it came down to it my TKD skills would be the deciding factor in my survival. Luckily our instructors were taught TKD with a Kempo mix, and as they progress in Krav Maga they will be adding that flavor in as well.

    I have a pretty good resume for old school fist fights and a knife fight or two, but that was when I was growing up in South Dallas and almost a lifetime ago. But you can take the kid out of the hood but you can't take the hood out of the kid.
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

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    Member Array mjmoore's Avatar
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    4th degree tae kwon do and 3rd degree hap ki do .
    Got into martial arts years ago with my daughter wound up
    owning and operating my own school for eight years before
    being relocated .
    As far as working on the street the two styles work well together
    TKD for strikes and HKD joint locks and throws.
    One of my students was a " rasslin " coach and we taught enough
    ground work for my students to get back to their feet.
    IMO armed combat is much better than unarmed
    Last edited by mjmoore; July 6th, 2009 at 04:32 PM. Reason: add a line
    We live in a society where pizza gets to your house before the police

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    Ex Member Array United93's Avatar
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    Monkeytown: "I also carry myself in such a manner as to not draw a lot of attention from trouble makers (i.e. I am not a loud mouth, braggard, smart a$$, etc.)."

    Good strategy, IMO.

    mjmoore: "armed combat is much better than unarmed"

    Well, it kind of depends on the situation, but I definitely think that if lethal force is warranted, it is foolish to use UC if weapons are available.

  8. #7
    VIP Member Array Dal1Celt's Avatar
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    I trained Philippine Stick fighting from an SF guy that spent years learning the art. Trained for just over a year until my teacher retired and moved.

    Unlike the name says it is a multi layered art, Sticks, Knives and unarmed combat.

    I haven't used it in anything other then training. I just need to find another teacher that charges a reasonable rate. I know I'll never find another that charges $20.00 a month for every Tues and Thurs.
    "Without fear there can be no Courage!"

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    Distinguished Member Array MinistrMalic's Avatar
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    I train in Ed Parker American Kenpo. I love it because IMAO it is really focused on real-life self defense. Some concepts that our organization focuses on:

    1) The ability to "choose." Kenpo is not stuck on particular techniques or rigid forms (though those are there), but rather uses technique to build a vocabulary of motion from which to defend ourselves and/or others.

    2) multiple "stages" of a conflict. These range from outside of any ability to contact to grappling on the ground.

    3) Unarmed as well as armed combat, both attacking and defending. We train with sticks, clubs, knives, and even firearms. We train MOSTLY unarmed, though we try to integrate all of it into a philosophy of SD.

    4) Lack of mysticism: We try to avoid mystical/eastern philosophy. (Ed Parker was a Christian, so is my teacher) We also try to avoid the mystique of martial arts and the "secret knowledge" of defense.

    Our art belts in the order white/yellow/orange/purple/blue/green/brown/black. I am currently a blue belt advancing toward green at a decent pace. I have been studying for a tad over three years and love it.
    "...whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one." (Luke 22:36)
    Christianity and Self Defense from a Biblical Perspective

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    Ex Member Array United93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MinistrMalic View Post
    I train in Ed Parker American Kenpo. I love it because IMAO it is really focused on real-life self defense. Some concepts that our organization focuses on:

    1) The ability to "choose." Kenpo is not stuck on particular techniques or rigid forms (though those are there), but rather uses technique to build a vocabulary of motion from which to defend ourselves and/or others.

    2) multiple "stages" of a conflict. These range from outside of any ability to contact to grappling on the ground.

    3) Unarmed as well as armed combat, both attacking and defending. We train with sticks, clubs, knives, and even firearms. We train MOSTLY unarmed, though we try to integrate all of it into a philosophy of SD.

    4) Lack of mysticism: We try to avoid mystical/eastern philosophy. (Ed Parker was a Christian, so is my teacher) We also try to avoid the mystique of martial arts and the "secret knowledge" of defense.

    Our art belts in the order white/yellow/orange/purple/blue/green/brown/black. I am currently a blue belt advancing toward green at a decent pace. I have been studying for a tad over three years and love it.
    Sounds good. Sounds real good. I like the idea of developing a system around many different defensive tools.

  11. #10
    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MinistrMalic View Post
    Lack of mysticism: We try to avoid mystical/eastern philosophy. (Ed Parker was a Christian, so is my teacher) We also try to avoid the mystique of martial arts and the "secret knowledge" of defense.
    Not that it matters in a fight, but I am glad my instructors are the same. They don't teach the Korean aspect and religious foundations of TKD. In fact they are messianic Christians, so we know more of Jewish traditions from them then anything Asian.
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

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    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    A bit of Karate (taught in USA), some Judo, Tae Kwon Do, ninpo and kick boxing while in Okinawa. CQB with the US Marines. I just don't move like I used to in my twenties, so I'll take shortcuts if I have to.

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    Member Array Monkeytown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by United93 View Post
    Monkeytown: "I also carry myself in such a manner as to not draw a lot of attention from trouble makers (i.e. I am not a loud mouth, braggard, smart a$$, etc.)."

    Good strategy, IMO.

    mjmoore: "armed combat is much better than unarmed"

    Well, it kind of depends on the situation, but I definitely think that if lethal force is warranted, it is foolish to use UC if weapons are available.
    Thanks, I like to think that I am well versed in the art of "Shut the @#$%& up!" haha
    "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." Benjamin Franklin

    Steps in the stripping of State's Rights/Sovereignty
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    Member Array trob09's Avatar
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    Tae Kwon Do - started training when I was 14 or so and continued through HS graduation. Earned 2nd degree Black Belt. I chose Tae Kwon Do because that is all there was in my tiny little town.

    Trained for several years with no particular goals or focus in 5-animal Kung fu, Hapkido and Aikido. Tried each of them for various reasons but never felt like any of them were 'right' for me.

    in '92 or so started training in Bujinkan Dojo Ninpo Taijutsu and never looked back. Taught it for a little while but I dislike the teaching side of it. It relies on the refinement of natural body actions/reactions, works in the 'real world', uses fundamentally the same techniques for armed/unarmed action (the weapon is an extension of the body) and has what I would consider an appropriate balance of spiritual/physical emphasis. I think if you're going to teach a student how to beat the crap out of someone, it's sensible to help guide them down the path of why that might not be such a great idea unless you really, really have to do so. Similarly I have little use for highly-stylized but real-world-ineffective techniques and heavy emphasis on the spiritual development.

    The most important thing it taught me (and still teaches me) is that it's better to avoid a confrontation all together than it is to win one....but if you get into one, do what you need to do to get home safely. There are no rules in a street fight.
    Freedom is a road seldom traveled by the multitude - Frederick Douglass

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    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    I have dabbled in Aikido for several years, less recently. I got into it because it was simply the most beautiful flowing interaction of sheer kinetic energy AND it doesn't take any strength. No punches or kicks. Purely defensive. You can't grab somebody and perform an Aikido technique it simply won't work. But if somebody or more than one somebody tries to grab YOU, watch out!

    I have used the art as a teacher in an inner city high school more than once and it has always worked even though I never rose above a white belt. In Aikido there are NO belts except white and black. There are senior students that are exemplified by the Black HAKAMA ceremonial pants worn. They look so large and flowing they appear to be a floor length skirt. They can be a pain to maneuver in but supposedly they teach to never let one's feet move from the ground lest you become entangled in the garment and fall. Teaches you to slide your feet instead of lifting one foot at anytime where you are automatically off balance. The garment teaches "center" and "balance" very well. MY particular Dojo was superb in that they will allow a person who might have a hard time with slamming one's older body on the mats to "walk out of" a technique instead of forcefully meeting the mat. For me, in my post surgical condition that's going to be crucial since I intend to go back and finish my studies until I earn a black belt. I'll have lost the weight and I'll have my health back and I'll have the time. By way of reference: Steven Seagal is a 7th dan Aikido Master. His movies are not pure Aikido, except the first one, ABOVE THE LAW. That was pretty much the real deal. Now he does a lot of punches and kicking too, so he's gone into other styles. But for my purposes, Aikido is perfect. I have done Tang Soo Do Karate and classic Jujuitsu, but I find Aikido is so natural and ... well, healthy for my body, emotions and soul that there is nothing else I'd like to explore.

    If you like, I can discuss the few times I have used the art in a real defensive manner but it was no big deal, not a protracted "fight," just a student getting blustery and full of himself after getting disciplined in class for being a jerk. Usually they come up and get real REAL close (folks thinks this is intimidating but one who practices Aikido loves it) and they sneer and say in a menacing growl: "What chooo gonna do now MISTER white expletive deleted." Then after I clearly warn and ask them NOT to touch me they try a shove or even better grab my shirt with a fist, prepping for a strike. It's usually all over in a second. Them on the ground screaming in the arm lock/wrist lock or finger technique I'd responded with.

    Word travels extremely fast in a high school. One or two encounters like that and everybody calms down and gets real respectful. Especially after I circulate my old military photo album. Once in awhile I've helped the special ed teachers handle an enraged autistic child out of control.

    When I changed schools once mid year (deeper into the inner city) my kids at the first school all called their buddies at the next school and told them: You got an awesome teacher inbound. But don't mess with him, or he'll KILL YOU DEAD. 'Nuff said. In all my 15 years between those two schools I've never been touched beyond those few "tries." The ROTC sergeant also commented it had something to do with my 14 years as an army officer. Called it "command bearing" and there is some truth to that as well.
    Last edited by ExSoldier; July 6th, 2009 at 09:43 PM. Reason: correct spelling
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Question Hey...

    Quote Originally Posted by Paco View Post
    Not that it matters in a fight, but I am glad my instructors are the same. They don't teach the Korean aspect and religious foundations of TKD. In fact they are messianic Christians, so we know more of Jewish traditions from them then anything Asian.
    Isn't KRAV MAGNA (sp?) an Israeli art? What they teach their special ops guys (and gals) as well as MOSSAD?
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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