Texas knife law? - Page 4

Texas knife law?

This is a discussion on Texas knife law? within the Defensive Knives & Other Weapons forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by om28v Originally Posted by searcher 45 So you can not carry a Bowie knife in your car for car defense? Maybe it's ...

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  1. #46
    Member Array ASHTXSNIPER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by om28v View Post
    Originally Posted by searcher 45
    So you can not carry a Bowie knife in your car for car defense?

    Maybe it's ok under the castle law in your car, but if you do my bet is your gonna be that kind of bird that don't sing. Plus attny fees.
    Read post #43
    Proud houlder of a Texas Open Carry License.


  2. #47
    New Member Array om28v's Avatar
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    The dirk thing is what they tried to get me with in court, judge had to go research what a dirk was and I got lucky because he had a book with a photo ( pre-internet days ) LEO was saying it was a dirk big time. Judge said WRONG. Most Peace Ofiicers in Texas are fantastic at what they do, the guy i got that time not so much. I was lucky the Judge had that book or I would have been toast or had to appeal.

  3. #48
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    There are some Peace Officers that don't know a dirk from a butter knife and want to classify everything as illegal. Fortunately for everyone in my jurisdiction I am a knife guy and know the difference. We try to educate people with a warning rather than ruin there lives. The only time we arrest for these weapons is if the person deserves it IE drug dealers, burglars etc. This is just my department others are a lot different.
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  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASHTXSNIPER View Post
    Here are a few things to help you guys out so you dont get in trouble.

    1.San Antonio has a city ordinance making essentially any locking blade knife illegal. Its a bunch of BS.

    2. 5.5 inches is the whole blade length not just the sharpened part. Anything past the guard is considered blade.

    3. Switchblades are illegal to own period.

    4. You can carry a knife in your vehicle that has a blade length of over 5.5 inches as long as is concealed in the vehicle/out of sight. You can not carry a 5.5 inch or longer blade(on your person) in public or inside your vehicle.


    5. Double edged knives are illegal to carry on your person in public or your vehicle. That includes knives with a sharpened swedge.

    Basically most fixed blade knives can be considered illegal because they fall under the definition of dirk, dagger, bowie knife, or poniard. If a Peace Officer says its illegal you are going to go for a ride and you will spend a fortune trying to clear yourself. The only good thing is most good Peace Officers will let you off with a warning
    PC 46.02 does not specify this....where are you getting the info from which I put in bold text?

    PC46.02 says you may have an illegal knife on or about your person in your vehicle (no distinction on you or concealed) just as one may have a handgun on them or in glovebox, under seat etc, however the handgun must be concealed

    Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
    (1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or
    (2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control.

    (a-1) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun in a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control at any time in which:
    (1) the handgun is in plain view; or
    (2) the person is:
    (A) engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic;
    (B) prohibited by law from possessing a firearm; or
    (C) a member of a criminal street gang, as defined by Section 71.01.
    (a-2) For purposes of this section, "premises" includes real property and a recreational vehicle that is being used as living quarters, regardless of whether that use is temporary or permanent. In this subsection, "recreational vehicle" means a motor vehicle primarily designed as temporary living quarters or a vehicle that contains temporary living quarters and is designed to be towed by a motor vehicle. The term includes a travel trailer, camping trailer, truck camper, motor home, and horse trailer with living quarters.
    (b) Except as provided by Subsection (c), an offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
    (c) An offense under this section is a felony of the third degree if the offense is committed on any premises licensed or issued a permit by this state for the sale of alcoholic beverages.
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    If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?

  5. #50
    New Member Array om28v's Avatar
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    64zebra I believe you are correct, but with the ways the law is written it is confusing even to LEO and Judges. Prohibited knives, illegal knives, Bowie's ( if you read about Bowies, there is no definative definitions of what one is, many people think they know, and they are different, even experts ), poniard (?), dirk, dagger. The only clear ones are double edged and autos. 5 1/2" or under 5 1/2"s? This is a problem of the legislature that they have these "fuzzy" terms. If citizens want to protect themselves with an edged weopon, and it's legal, they should make it crystal clear what is acceptible. A CHL can carry a 454 casull in their waiste but not a bowie? Very odd.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by om28v View Post
    64zebra I believe you are correct, but with the ways the law is written it is confusing even to LEO and Judges. Prohibited knives, illegal knives, Bowie's ( if you read about Bowies, there is no definative definitions of what one is, many people think they know, and they are different, even experts ), poniard (?), dirk, dagger. The only clear ones are double edged and autos. 5 1/2" or under 5 1/2"s? This is a problem of the legislature that they have these "fuzzy" terms. If citizens want to protect themselves with an edged weopon, and it's legal, they should make it crystal clear what is acceptible. A CHL can carry a 454 casull in their waiste but not a bowie? Very odd.
    I don't have any confusion. I don't understand whats confusing.
    Not being insulting or a smart [blankety blank] so please don't misunderstand my intent......I'll explain it the way I was taught by my 39 year veteran LEO/CHL instructor/DPS instructor/assiting editor to the CHL law.........

    Under Texas law a switchblade is a prohibited weapon....period....can't have them anywhere...illegal to own even in your house......period....just as explosives/bombs are illegal to have period

    Illegal knives can be possessed on your property/property under your control, or in/en route to your vehicle/vehicle under your control....period...concealed or not.

    If your knife is single edged and no longer than 5 1/2" its legal (not including switchblade, see above 'prohibited weapon'). The law says illegal is over 5 1/2, so if it is 5 1/2 or under its legal. Just like going faster than 70 in a 70 mph speed limit zone is illegal, doing 70 or under is ok.

    (6) "Illegal knife" means a:
    (A) knife with a blade over five and one-half inches;
    (B) hand instrument designed to cut or stab another by being thrown; (knives designed as throwing knives are obviously different than non-throwing, throwing stars are self-explanatory)
    (C) dagger (double-edged knife...this is the basis for all the other types/examples of illegal knives), including but not limited to (meaning these are just examples of daggers but not all of them) a dirk (short dagger, usually not sharpened on the blade, mainly for thrusting), stiletto (most commonly a spike type thruster, usually not sharpened blade), and poniard (french word for dagger);
    (D) bowie knife; (its a big friggin knife....see above about over 5 1/2 in length, also, Bowie have a partial sharpened edge on top...therefore they're double-edged....a la dagger)
    (E) sword; (self-explanatory) or
    (F) spear (self-explanatory).

    This is the way I was taught a few years ago and the way we were taught in the academy too.
    That being said......I do all I can to educate people, including some of my own department to keep them from screwing things up for people. I've had some heated discussions, sometimes with senior officers and I have them look at 46.02 and I convince them that they are wrong.
    Texas knife laws are some of the least enforced laws on the books. Texas needs to change the law where a CHL holder is no longer bound by 46.02 IMO...just make the CHL a weapons permit to allow for these other weapons. We can push for it, who knows if we'll get it.
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    Independence is declared; it must be maintained. Sam Houston-3/2/1836
    If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by 64zebra View Post
    PC 46.02 does not specify this....where are you getting the info from which I put in bold text?

    PC46.02 says you may have an illegal knife on or about your person in your vehicle (no distinction on you or concealed) just as one may have a handgun on them or in glovebox, under seat etc, however the handgun must be concealed

    Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
    (1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or
    (2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control.

    (a-1) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun in a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control at any time in which:
    (1) the handgun is in plain view; or
    (2) the person is:
    (A) engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic;
    (B) prohibited by law from possessing a firearm; or
    (C) a member of a criminal street gang, as defined by Section 71.01.
    (a-2) For purposes of this section, "premises" includes real property and a recreational vehicle that is being used as living quarters, regardless of whether that use is temporary or permanent. In this subsection, "recreational vehicle" means a motor vehicle primarily designed as temporary living quarters or a vehicle that contains temporary living quarters and is designed to be towed by a motor vehicle. The term includes a travel trailer, camping trailer, truck camper, motor home, and horse trailer with living quarters.
    (b) Except as provided by Subsection (c), an offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
    (c) An offense under this section is a felony of the third degree if the offense is committed on any premises licensed or issued a permit by this state for the sale of alcoholic beverages.
    If I stop you and you and I ask you to exit the vehicle then you would have just violated the law because now you are carrying the weapon on your person in a public place that is why you can not carry it on your person in your vehicle. Same thing applies if your vehicle is wrecked or catches fire and you exit it in a hurry. If you attempt to take it off before exiting the vehicle then you will probably get shot by the approaching officer. Are you going to take off your illegal knife every time you get out to pump gas or go into a store? This will also be very hard to do while seated in the vehicle because if you do it outside the vehicle then it is an offense. Just because the law states you can do something you still have to make sure that one legal action doesn't lead to an illegal action. I am playing devils advocate on this on because there are some officers (myself not included) that would ask you to exit the vehicle and then would charge you with unlawful carrying of a prohibited weapon even though the person exited under a lawful order and was forced to violate the law. As far as the concealed part you are correct I was thinking about a handgun thanks for the correction I will edit my original post to show these corrections so as not to lead anyone astray. ETA.......it appears than I can not edit my original post hopefully anyone interested will read the whole thread.
    Last edited by ASHTXSNIPER; December 17th, 2009 at 08:26 PM. Reason: couldnt edit errors on first quote
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  8. #53
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    Precisely why I won't carry a knife

    Quote Originally Posted by ASHTXSNIPER View Post
    There are some Peace Officers that don't know a dirk from a butter knife and want to classify everything as illegal.
    Exactly why I won't carry a knife. *

    Texas' knife laws are in dire need of revision; it is totally ridiculous that someone with a CHL can't ever be quite sure if a knife is legal or not--in part because it changes from place to place, unlike the gun laws. We need a CWP instead of CHL, complete State Pre-emption too, and then we need to loosen up the definition of "illegal weapon" for license holders.
    __________________________________________________ ___

    * And why I am very careful to keep "sports equipment" in the enclosed locked trunk, in special canvas covers my wife made for me. If you read those prohibited weapons sections carefully, practically anything can be so construed.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Exactly why I won't carry a knife. *

    Texas' knife laws are in dire need of revision; it is totally ridiculous that someone with a CHL can't ever be quite sure if a knife is legal or not--in part because it changes from place to place, unlike the gun laws. We need a CWP instead of CHL, complete State Pre-emption too, and then we need to loosen up the definition of "illegal weapon" for license holders.
    __________________________________________________ ___

    * And why I am very careful to keep "sports equipment" in the enclosed locked trunk, in special canvas covers my wife made for me. If you read those prohibited weapons sections carefully, practically anything can be so construed.
    This is so true. In the past I overheard cops ,who were customers, argue about legal knives in Tx. Not sure what prompted these conversations but I have witnessed this twice. As far as assisted opening knives, I believe even though they are legal in many states, these knives would get you a ride to jail. This will depend on the cop,not the law.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASHTXSNIPER View Post
    If I stop you and you and I ask you to exit the vehicle then you would have just violated the law because now you are carrying the weapon on your person in a public place that is why you can not carry it on your person in your vehicle.
    that is incorrect, its not the law
    that is not why you cannnot carry it on your person in a vehicle....there is no reason why you can't carry it on your person in a vehicle, its not against the law
    is it advisable in your (and others') scenarios? maybe not, would it be a hassle...maybe, but its not illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by ASHTXSNIPER View Post
    Same thing applies if your vehicle is wrecked or catches fire and you exit it in a hurry. If you attempt to take it off before exiting the vehicle then you will probably get shot by the approaching officer. Are you going to take off your illegal knife every time you get out to pump gas or go into a store? This will also be very hard to do while seated in the vehicle because if you do it outside the vehicle then it is an offense. Just because the law states you can do something you still have to make sure that one legal action doesn't lead to an illegal action.
    I do know people that take off illegal knives & pistols (they don't have CHL) when they are getting out of car for gas, go to store, etc

    Quote Originally Posted by ASHTXSNIPER View Post
    I am playing devils advocate on this on because there are some officers (myself not included) that would ask you to exit the vehicle and then would charge you with unlawful carrying of a prohibited weapon even though the person exited under a lawful order and was forced to violate the law.
    if a person is carrying a handgun (without CHL) or illegal knife and are stopped, and then are asked to exit the vehicle and the officer hooks 'em up then its entrapment
    and the charge wouldn't be possession of prohibited weapon, it would be unlawful carrying of weapon

    I backed up an officer on a traffic stop a few weeks ago
    vehicle was stopped due to matching description of vehicle leaving scene of crime
    got driver and passenger out, IDd them, all clean, definitely not the ones we were looking for, got consent and search found a hunting knife probably 8 or 9 inch blade, my fellow officer was beginning to lecture them about he could take them to jail for having it in the truck, etc, I asked to speak with him back at our cars and politely informed him he was wrong on this and explained the law without burning him in front of the citizens.....he realized his mistake and was cool about it all
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    If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?

  11. #56
    Member Array ASHTXSNIPER's Avatar
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    I wouldn't bet years of my life that a modern day jury would see that as entrapment.
    Proud houlder of a Texas Open Carry License.

  12. #57
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    maybe, maybe not
    after jury is read/explained this, who knows:

    PC Sec. 8.06. ENTRAPMENT
    (a) It is a defense to prosecution that the actor engaged in the conduct charged because he was induced to do so by a law enforcement agent using persuasion or other means likely to cause persons to commit the offense.

    ASH, I like you would never do that to someone and I understand where you're coming from, I deal with these scenarios everyday on the job too
    and I think we are all in agreement that the knife laws in Texas are ridiculous and need serious reworking
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    Independence is declared; it must be maintained. Sam Houston-3/2/1836
    If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?

  13. #58
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    Jim Bowie is turning over in his grave, with today's knife laws.

  14. #59
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    If you are pulled over and have this in your car, or on your person in your car, and have done nothing wrong I still think you have a large percentage of a chance of wearing an orange jump suit and flip flops for a few days and spending several thousands in Attny's fees to clear your name. Not worth it IMO and that is why I say there is confusion.
    http://www.coldsteel.com/taipan.html
    Last edited by om28v; December 18th, 2009 at 03:03 PM.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by om28v View Post

    If you are pulled over and have this in your car, or on your person, and have done nothing wrong I still think you have a large percentage of a chance of wearing an orange jump suit and flip flops for a few days and spending several thousands in Attny's fees to clear your name. Not worth it IMO and that is why I say there is confusion.
    Tai Pan : Japanese Styled Knives (Fixed Blade)

    there is no confusion in that its a dagger, illegal knife, can have it where I've posted above

    the confusion would be on the LEO or agencies comprehension of the law
    if you get arrested for having this in your car, its wrong and you should recover everything at the agency's expense, and have as part of the ruling that the dept do mandatory refresher courses for all officers
    LEO/CHL
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    "I got a touch of hangover bureaucrat, don't push me"
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    Independence is declared; it must be maintained. Sam Houston-3/2/1836
    If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?

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