Nightclub Security Impact tool

This is a discussion on Nightclub Security Impact tool within the Defensive Knives & Other Weapons forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; When I was a "doorman" I always found great use for a 3-D cell Maglite. It sat well on the shoulder providing a temporary blinding ...

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Thread: Nightclub Security Impact tool

  1. #16
    Member Array HiWayMan's Avatar
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    When I was a "doorman" I always found great use for a 3-D cell Maglite. It sat well on the shoulder providing a temporary blinding flash to the eyes and could be followed thru with a nice overhand noggin thump if needed. It was also heavy enough that a short telescoped swing to the "undercarriage" got immediate compliance. I also liked it for walking the barmaids to their cars after a shift. It allowed one to light up dark corners and under and inside cars.

    However, I would have carried a flat sap, if allowed by law, in addition to the light in a heart beat.

    Edited to add: One more experienced fella used a cut down section of stock cane (hooked top). The shaft length was about 14". To escort out he would grab a hand full of collar and push forward while the cane crook sat nestled against the "twig and berries" between the legs providing pressure back and up. Worked as well on the ladies as it did the gents.

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  3. #17
    Distinguished Member Array RSSZ's Avatar
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    disko, So I take it that you have checked into the rules and regs of the establishment that you will be working for. What does their insurance company say?

    If all that's done then......nothing very long. Nothing that you will have to put together or put on. I worked part time as a bouncer at a very large establishment in Mt. View Calif. before the coming of silicone valley. The entry way as most of the other parts of the place were very dark. We checked all I.D.'s at the door. I would check probably 200-300 during a shift. We had to have a flashlight that was fairly bright and fairly heavy as well. This was back before the high tech lights came out. I used a Mag Lite that took 4,size "C" batteries. This was the perfect combination of size and weight.

    It would easily slip into the back pocket of jeans and was easy to "draw". If you can carry an impact weapon,I would suggest that you pick a SAP. At least 9" and 10oz.in weight. Make sure the strap fits through your fingers properly and it has just the right amount if flex in the handle.Get it in black so as to "dissappear" in a dimly lit room.

    If your laws make it impossible to carry a 9" then try the 6 1/2 to 8" and 8 oz.

    If I was you I'd have the light and SAP with me on duty to fend off the pint mugs.----

  4. #18
    Distinguished Member Array fed_wif_a_sig's Avatar
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    I'll still make the statement, stay away from maglights as improvised impact weapons. To many cops have gotten into a bind, and several are in the great state of PA's pen for using them. I keep tossing this over in my head and wonder why the reach back for items that didnt really work. The sap was nice, but had a tendancy to cause concussions or permenant brain dammage, thus the reason its not allowed for carry by American officers (I see it sold, but dont know of a single dept that authorizes it). Best advice is enrole in a great martial arts training (I prefer Brizilian Jiu-Jitsu) and learn to work with a short staff. My other fear is that this thread may be a good reporter searching for a good story down under (but then again, I'm not a very trusting guy, go figgure).
    Steve
    "Respect all ... Fear none!!!

  5. #19
    Member Array SUPERMAN .45's Avatar
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    Before I work as a bouncer for almost 4 years in some of the biggest clubs here in Manila, provided close escort protection to foreign artist and celebrities. I carry an ASP 21 baton and Kubotan key chain, I used this weapons to subdue drunk guest or rowdy customers, wild fans and crowd control. I 'm a martial artist my background is Muay Thai, Aikido, Brazilian jujitsu and mixed martial arts. To be a good bouncer at least you have a background in martial arts, you must learn how to lock, hold and disarm him.Use your weapon to subdue and disarm a drunk and rowdy customers. But you should know to control your strikes or where to hit him. Or you will be in court for to much force resulting to injury. And most of all be a good pacifier, if you can talk to them in a nice way to to avoid confrontation do it. But you should always be in control of the situation. Goodluck and be safe.
    Up in the Sky, It's a Bird No, It's a Plane No, It's SUPERMAN

  6. #20
    New Member Array Silver_Mongoose's Avatar
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    I agree. I've worked as a doorman in the past, and I must say that the most useful (and most used) skill for me was being able to talk down a situation from escalating. Depending on your surroundings, you'll find in varying degrees that folks are not always all that interested in drawing blood (and all that comes with it). If you paint them a picture in which they see nothing to lose if they simply cease and desist with being stupid, chances are they will. Everybody likes being treated like a human being, and many confrontations with bouncers occur because the former go about handling and/or "breaking-up" a potential fray with the full expectations and aspirations to bust heads and be ********.

    Now, that said, any amount of peacekeeping has to have at least double the amount of the steel to back it up, or else it's just like a failing economy--all paper, no metal. And I have had to drop a few morons on their ass and out the door for refusing to listen. Keep in mind that you are working in an establishment where they serve alcohol for consumption on the premises.

    Is talking the best solution? Hell, no. However, mastering your "verbal Judo" will help immensely in separating situations of real calamity from those that would become calamitous if you go in trying to thread a screw with a hammer, if you know what I mean.

    This has been my personal experience, at least. Yours may vary. Be safe, and enjoy your work.

  7. #21
    Senior Member Array ssssthesnake's Avatar
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    i moon lite some weekends up here in chico at a university style hang out a firm hard grip some times is all it takes when talking wont work usaly in the elbo or other joint or nerv centers never have had the need for a sap

  8. #22
    Closed Account Array Steelhorse's Avatar
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    Two friends and I drank free of charge for an entire day.

    The owner of a bar was complaining of the amount of fighting going on in the bar that day. I bargained a day of free drinking that I could put a stop to it.

    My two friends are 6-4"/350 lbs and 6'6"/370 lbs. I placed each on either side of the bar entrance that could be seen from the street. A beautiful display to deter anyone who thought of causing any problems.

    To get back to the thread; are you interested in strictly impact instruments or would other means be acceptable?

  9. #23
    Member Array KevinInstructor's Avatar
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    You might consider a Spyderco Gunting, although discontinued for several years you can still find them on ebay along with training done by Bram Frank all over the world along with various groups that teach his style.

    There are three versions black, blue and red. They are explained at http://www.cssdsc.com/. What I would recommend if you can find one is the red model which has a dull blade. By itself in the hands of an untrained person you have no more then a hard object but with training you can do amazing things with the red Gunting and stay non-lethal and be able to deal with the toughest person. I have used my blue model several times and can say that it does work.

    In the near future there will be a reemergence of the Gunting by Bram done by another company with several models available (more then from Spyderco).
    Stay Safe,
    Kevin

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  10. #24
    Member Array chris s's Avatar
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    I agree, talking down the situation is the best but if it escalates.
    Get a sap-if you can wear gloves, the sap goes inside the palm of the glove. Should you have to strike it appears as an open hand slap.
    This technique was used by many a street cop back in the day.

  11. #25
    Distinguished Member Array dimmak's Avatar
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    Yawara...
    Sharpie marker is an excellent persuader as well....
    "Ray Nagin is a colossal disappointment" - NRA/ILA Executive Director Chris W. Cox.


    "...be water, my friend."

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier
    Impact Kerambit (NOT the knife based on the impact design) can't be beat. Small, unobtrusive, light and looks harmless. Some of them even have hex shaped cutouts that can be used as a "wrench!" One of the best weapons is that which does not appear to BE a weapon.
    I'm going to second this one. It's not only a great impact tool, but allows for blocks that can be painful to the opponent. Its design is such that you can still open your hand for a grab without losing your tool.

    Here's a link for some online basic instruction:

    http://www.kungfuonline.com/print.php?article=51

    You can buy them in many places for about $10. Do a search for "kerambit" here for a general idea of the variety and accessories:

    http://www.shomer-tec.com/site/index.cfm

    Hope this helps.
    eschew obfuscation

    The only thing that stops bad guys with guns is good guys with guns. SgtD

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array KenpoTex's Avatar
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    I also like the Travel-wrench/Impact-kerambit. This tool was designed by Kelly S. Worden. I've got a few of his DVD's (I also had the opportunity to attend one of his seminars) and his material is great.

    I've got the dvd pictured here as well as one of his special-forces programs (he's a contractor for the 10th group).
    http://www.kellyworden.com/TWBonusPkgPage.html

    Definately worth checking out if you're interested in this tool.
    "Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina

    If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.

    Matt K.

  14. #28
    Member Array disko's Avatar
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    I had no idea this thread would go on for so long!

    I'm a member of the Scientific Fighting Congress of Australia, so I'm good with practical martial arts, and I currently work on the railways, dealing with aggrieved suits who want to know why they should be late to work because of the fatality on their train... so I'm reasonable at dealing with people.

    I'm still in the consideration process, so please, keep your suggestions coming, impact tools or other!
    PAX IN BELLO

  15. #29
    Member Array KevinInstructor's Avatar
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    I am sure the "Travel-wrench/Impact-kerambit" is a great tool, otherwise people would not be recommending it but for me I can not imagine carrying it on a daily basis. For the average person learning the basic Kubaton would be best I think because you can transition the techniques to ordinary items such as a Mini-Mag flashlight or even using your fingers/thumb.

    May be it's place is in bodyguard/security field?
    Stay Safe,
    Kevin

    CSSDSD Instructor
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    NRA Instructor

  16. #30
    VIP Member Array KenpoTex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinInstructor
    I am sure the "Travel-wrench/Impact-kerambit" is a great tool, otherwise people would not be recommending it but for me I can not imagine carrying it on a daily basis. For the average person learning the basic Kubaton would be best I think because you can transition the techniques to ordinary items such as a Mini-Mag flashlight or even using your fingers/thumb.

    May be it's place is in bodyguard/security field?
    I don't really feel that most of the techniques with the travel-wrench are that different. The hammerfist type striking techniques are going to be the same, you've just got a blade-shaped striking surface as opposed to a "point." You are also able to punch, making contact with two parts of the tool, rather than just using it as a fist-load like you would with a kubaton.

    The locking techniques are nice to have, but not 100% necessary. I don't think anyone who had only trained with a kubaton would be at a disadvantage were they to find themselves holding a Travel-wrench.

    That said, it's really a matter of personal preference. Everyone should carry what works for them.
    "Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina

    If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.

    Matt K.

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