Stabbing v. Slashing

[mercop]

I have never been in a knife fight, I have defended against an edged weapon on three occasions. I never got cut but chalk it up to more luck than skill and I will always take luck over skill:)

What I teach is from experience and expertise is the most likely things I believe you will be able to pull off in the positions you are likely to end up in, not the ones you would like to be in.

The anatomical truth is that a hammer fist with the pommel of a knife will stop someone faster than a stab to the heart even though the stab is more likely to eventually result in eventual death.

I like to watch UFC but here are my thoughts on how it does not apply to the street-

Concrete does not give like the mat.

In the street you do not have a cage separating you from the bad guys friends.

In the UFC their is no danger or even anxiety about multiple opponents or weapons.

Even if you are knocked out and your attacker wants to keep damaging you their is someone in the octagon to protect you.

Everything you are not allowed to do in the UFC are the first things you should do in real life.- George

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[psychophipps]

I have never been in a knife fight, I have defended against an edged weapon on three occasions. I never got cut but chalk it up to more luck than skill and I will always take luck over skill:)

What I teach is from experience and expertise is the most likely things I believe you will be able to pull off in the positions you are likely to end up in, not the ones you would like to be in.

The anatomical truth is that a hammer fist with the pommel of a knife will stop someone faster than a stab to the heart even though the stab is more likely to eventually result in eventual death.

I like to watch UFC but here are my thoughts on how it does not apply to the street-

Concrete does not give like the mat.

In the street you do not have a cage separating you from the bad guys friends.

In the UFC their is no danger or even anxiety about multiple opponents or weapons.

Even if you are knocked out and your attacker wants to keep damaging you their is someone in the octagon to protect you.

Everything you are not allowed to do in the UFC are the first things you should do in real life.- George

I completely agree with the above. The idea that you have to have done something or had it done to you to have any idea about it is pretty ignorant. Just because you've never been blown up by a grenade doesn't mean that you can't possibly know anything about safety with the things or automatically makes what you teach about grenade safety "just theory".

I would add a few bits to the UFC thing:
In the octagon you know that your opponent will fight back.

They don't let you have concealed weapons in the octagon.

[ItsMyRight2]

You guys are taking what I am saying wrong. I never said UFC was related to a real street fight. Especially now with all the rules its just a sport.

And to compare the theory of how a grenade works to what we are talking about isn't even the same thing.lol

Being in many real world combat situations and speaking from experience. Once the fight or flight response kicks in and your filled with adrenaline...all the training usually goes out the window. In training its almost impossible to simulate that feeling.

And to each his own. If you wanna take the advice of what will work in a fight from someone who has never been in one.Well thats your choice. I personally look for proven tactics. There is nothing wrong with either way I guess.

Could just be me being bitter for wasting time in many McDojo's listening to guys claiming there art is the best. So sorry if ranting.I'll shut up now.

[mercop]

As far as training going out the window I have to say BS. I too have been in many real world situations and my training was what carried me. Not specific tactics but strategy and principles.

Even if you are not subjected to the specific threat you actually end up encountering in real life, just the inoculation of stress at that level is a huge benefit.

Whenever I consider the usefulness of a tactic or technique I do so through a mental Rolodex containing everyone I have ever fought against, with, or trained from Joe Citizen to professional warriors of the highest caliber, in there lies a happy medium where the "average" individual resides. What do I think they will be able to do.- George

[MitchellCT]

And as far as I am concerned all these knife combat tactics and such are just theory. Ask your tactical knife instructor how many knife fights he/she has been in. Or the person that taught them the tactics etc. I am sure a majority answer would be none.

I could ask Leo Gaje how many knife fights he's been in...but I don't want to be slapped around like a...

I think I'll just take pekiti tirsia as a given for effectiveness.

I'm crazy like that...

[BlindBlade]

How many times have you taken care of business with a stab up under the fifth rib with a 7" blade?

My intention is not to discuss what is more effective, stabbing vs slashing since the truth is that a pommel strike between the eyes if you could manage it would stop a fight faster than a stab to the heart if you could manage that. Rather it is about my the fact that you are much more likely to be in a position to slash rather than stab regardless of what you want or are trained to do. To take advantage of that I advocate my Inverted Edge Tactics since it uses the natural funnels created between the arms and torso, and between the legs to hook your knife into vital targets.

As far as being able to find specific target on the body, have you ever been trained in CPR? Have you ever given it? Even in lighted conditions you need to use your fingers to landmark the correct position on the sternum. Taking this example into consideration I think it is unlike that you will be able to aim for a specific target on your attacker in low light conditions, with both of you moving, under stress. - George

the answer is : several times.
cpr ? yes.
hitting a specific target does
require the use of fingers.correct.
wrapping the fingers of your left
hand around anothers throut , &
picking them up always opens
the area for the jab.
how about actualy getting into
a real fight or two, before you try
tellig someone else ,what is effective,
or not. i'm not here to argue.
thats my attorney's job .

[AutoFan]

The blessedly few times I have been in an adrenaline dump situation, it was my training that allowed me to function.

I know that if I am in a knife fight, I will get cut, unless I can use a weapon that will allow me distance to disarm or disable my attacker.

If you want to use Martial Arts to defend yourself, find a style with self defense orientation and practice, practice, practice until you don't think about moves anymore.

[unloved]

the answer is : several times.
cpr ? yes.
hitting a specific target does
require the use of fingers.correct.
wrapping the fingers of your left
hand around anothers throut , &
picking them up always opens
the area for the jab.
how about actualy getting into
a real fight or two, before you try
tellig someone else ,what is effective,
or not. i'm not here to argue.
thats my attorney's job .

Thank you guru. I'll be sure to pick the mugger up by his throut next time.

[Thumper]

No part of MCS including IET relies on pain compliance or psychological response. When you think about how hard it is to judge response from Central Nervous Disruption, Circulatory Disruption, and structural disruption, things we all have in common you realize that using pain compliance and psychological stoppages have no place in a legitimate survival mindset. They more than anything physical differ greatly from person to person. Consider that many here work on our mindset that we will continue to fight no matter the level of pain or how scared we are you realize that you can never count on anything to be 100% but some things are not to be counted on at all. Just my $.02- George

Excellent, thanks!

[mercop]

the answer is : several times.
cpr ? yes.
hitting a specific target does
require the use of fingers.correct.
wrapping the fingers of your left
hand around anothers throut , &
picking them up always opens
the area for the jab.
how about actualy getting into
a real fight or two, before you try
tellig someone else ,what is effective,
or not. i'm not here to argue.
thats my attorney's job .

OK, time for details. Was this CONUS or OCONUS. In the line of duty or as a civilian. What brought you and the attacker together? What was the physical environment? What were you carrying and where were you carrying it? Was there more than one attacker? Were you also armed with a firearm and if so why did you choose to use a knife instead? Where did you receive your training? After your stab to the throat, did they stop aggressive action right away or require further attention? How long did it take for them to die? I have more questions but will start with these. Thanks- George

[mercop]

Back to waiting

[BlindBlade]

1. those borders are questionable.
2.-5b. N/A.
6. yes.
7.-7.b. yes:silence.
8.NUNYA.
9.-9.b. throat grab.not stab.(vagus roll).
it hard to be aggressive,when brain is
h2 starved. remember the initial
stab location ?
10.180 seconds.
11.your questions are finished.

now back to stabbing vs. slashing:
give it all you have.you can only lose once.

[LongRider]

I believe stabbing to be the best but only if you have a target and not just trying to poke a bunch of holes in someone. If you look at the way prisoners do it they usually go for the same spots being the neck,and other organs. You would have to know the basics of the human anatomy to be a good stabber.

By way of background I volunteered in a prison for over a decade working with Nam Era vets with PTSD. I have seen over three hundred stabbings just under a third of those were fatal.
What you described has happened once in the over three hundred stabbing I saw. One precision stabbing where the guy was hit twice both in vital areas and was dead before he hit the ground. ALL others were ALOT of holes punched until some vital areas were hit. Even than the victims continued to fight. Prison knife attacks bear far more resemblance to an attack by a pack of rabid wolves than any thing remotely like a precision hit.
Based on having been cut a few times, obviously I lived and what I have seen. Survival of any knife attack requires that regardless of who initiated the attack. The survivor must instantly go on the offensive. Punching as many holes into the attacker and causing as much blood loss as possible, as quickly as possible, in whatever way they can. Even than. Even AFTER the attacker has been fatally stabbed it is reasonable to expect that they will keep coming. I can sight dozens of cases where men have been fatally stabbed and still fought on. IMO based on what I have seen everyone who fights defensively in a knife fight dies. Anyone who tries to just hit the targeted areas dies.

[mercop]

Good information LongRider

[psychophipps]

Agreed. Good info, LongRider. This is basically the same info I received from my ex-con acquaintances. The one thing I do have to add is that their experience was that attacks that breached the trachea and arteries of the neck resulted in much faster incapacitation than attacks to the vital areas of the torso.