Knife as primary and CC firearm as back up - Page 2

Knife as primary and CC firearm as back up

This is a discussion on Knife as primary and CC firearm as back up within the Defensive Knives & Other Weapons forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I started this thread because I am much faster getting my knife into action than my CC firearm. Let me share an event last week ...

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Thread: Knife as primary and CC firearm as back up

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array searcher 45's Avatar
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    I started this thread because I am much faster getting my knife into action than my CC firearm.

    Let me share an event last week that made me come to reality about up close an personal, this event turned out well but could have been as bad as it gets!!!

    Stopped at a Stop and Rob to use there restroom (getting older and coffee.) Pulled up beside store and looked around as wife and I exit car. There is a pickup truck parked between gas pumps and hwy. with two men setting in it. I started around building wife a few feet behind me as I reached the door one of the men in the truck ran past me and into the store.

    Inside the store there is a man standing at the checkout talking to the clerk. The man running in pasted me and grabbed the man standing talking to the clerk. I am about 3 feet from this when I looked back and my wife is in doorway and second man from truck very close to her her. I go to bright orange headed to red fast but the distance is with in arms reach. Wife and I are both boxed as the two at the check out counter are making a racket. All this happens in like 5 or 10 seconds.

    The one man by my wife is small maybe 130# and very close to her. I knew somehow that IF and I say IF this was going down bad and the one next to my wife GRABBED HER my target was going to be him. I know her, she would fight back and that would give me 1/2 second to be on him and hopefully out the door with wife and on to 911.

    Up close and personal, being faster with knife and no over penetration problem the lock blade folder was my choice. When I looked at him my hand went to my back pocket and I knew in an instant that IF needed I would take that fellow down in about a blink of an eye. My lock blade folder would make a good small hand club if I did not have time to deploy blade.

    Good news, good news, the two men at the check out start laughing, and horse playing or something of the sort. Calling each other cousin and heading for the door, they all left in the truck together this whole thing is over in about 15 to 20 seconds.


  2. #17
    Senior Member Array boscobeans's Avatar
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    New York has made the choice for me. No knife!

    bosco

  3. #18
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    Where and how are you carrying your firearm because there really should not be an appreciable amount of time difference between the two?

    "In most cases with practice a LOCK BLADE FOLDER or FIXED BLADE can be deployed faster than CC firearm."

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by searcher 45 View Post
    If a Bad Guy wants wallet or car keys or anything that is on you, or wants to kidnap you he would have to get close enough to demand his wants, this is where A GOOD VERY SHARP DEFENSIVE KNIFE COMES IN NOT AS BACK UP BUT PRIMARY DEFENSE.

    A good sharp knife can be down right deadly, with very little concern about over penetration or missing the BG all together and downing someone else.
    I don't think you really want to ask for my keys.

    You may get them...unfortunately they are also attached to the sheath for my lagriffe.

    That would be bad.

    For you.
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  5. #20
    Distinguished Member Array TerriLi's Avatar
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    Honestly after thinking about this, it all boils down to situation and training. At arms touch range against another knife for me personally Im going for my blade, against a gun Im going for my Sig. If its in a grappling situation firearm or knife I say Im going for my blade.
    But thats me, I've trained with blades alot more for longer then I have firearms.
    I know not what this "overkill" means.

    Honing the knives, Cleaning the longguns, Stocking up ammo.

  6. #21
    VIP Member Array searcher 45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmbrcstm2 View Post
    What if he pulls a gun after you pull your knife out? Will you have enough time to draw your firearm when he already has his gun on you?

    I carry a Spyderco in addition to my firearm. But the Spyderco doesn't come out until both magazines are empty.
    My thinking is he already has a a firearm out and is up close and personal. Speed and your actions is all you have. Being faster with my lock blade folder even closed and used as a short hand club it is better than nothing or just standing there and let him shoot love ones or me. If I go down I want to go down fighting and at least the BG or BGs will know they have been in a fight for their lives.

  7. #22
    Senior Member Array psychophipps's Avatar
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    Depends on the range, really. If you've done the martial arts for a while you get an idea of the tools you use at certain ranges. Throwing a right hook at someone who is a jumping front kick away is a waste of energy and time. Same goes for a gun in the fact that if they're close enough to easily interrupt your draw then it's probably best to meet them with your other tools, gain a position of dominance or safe range to where you can go for the firearm with a good chance of success, and then go from there with the firearm as your primary tool.

  8. #23
    Member Array Bm7b5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by searcher 45 View Post
    Please tell me how this is wrong thinking, if it is wrong?

    ...A good sharp knife can be down right deadly...for up close and personal...the DEFENSE KNIFE [is] the weapon best suited for the task.

    Tell me why this is right thinking or wrong thinking!!!!!!!!!!
    It is hard for anyone to answer your question because we don't know exactly what you are seeing in your mind. With that said, one thing that stands out to me is that you are thinking in terms of deadliness to your opponent rather than the best tactics to maximize your chance of survival.

    In a lethal force situation, distance is usually your friend. If I have a handgun, I will most likely be looking to create distance and deploy my handgun.

    http://www.pointshooting.com/sop9.htm
    A traffic ticket is formal recognition of a lapse in situational awareness.

  9. #24
    Member Array hengst's Avatar
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    Always!! if the attacker is badbreath (arms length) close I KNOW I can deflect his firearm pull my gerber fairbaines (special setup I have made) ram it in the side of his throat and pull pretty damn fast.

  10. #25
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    I don't like knives or knife fighting! Yes, I can fight with a knife. Using the universal SCARS method, it is no different whether I'm unarmed engaged in H2H or have a knife/club in my hand. The techniques are identical and universal. And I do train with SCARS using a training knife frequently.

    However, my knife is mainly a utility tool and when it comes to weapons, I doubt I would go for it first. Yep, I have no problem fighting with the knife but I don't consider myself a knife fighter and would prefer to use other tools, namely the firearm.

    That's just what works for me. However, each situation is going to dictate how I respond.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  11. #26
    VIP Member Array searcher 45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hengst View Post
    Always!! if the attacker is badbreath (arms length) close I KNOW I can deflect his firearm pull my gerber fairbaines (special setup I have made) ram it in the side of his throat and pull pretty damn fast.
    This is about the way I see it.

    I am not a knife fighter or want a be knife fighter. In a case where one is bad breath close, and he is already armed, about the only chance one would have is go to the thing one is fastest with.

    If I had a hammer or wrench or whatever at hand I would try to use it before BG took me out.

    Willingness to fight back no matter what is used requires one to think out side the box.

    If a firearm is your always or first only response, as mine was for a time, then you have limited your chances of winning, and loosing may mean the loss of love one or your own life.

  12. #27
    Member Array hengst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by searcher 45 View Post
    This is about the way I see it.

    I am not a knife fighter or want a be knife fighter. In a case where one is bad breath close, and he is already armed, about the only chance one would have is go to the thing one is fastest with.

    If I had a hammer or wrench or whatever at hand I would try to use it before BG took me out.

    Willingness to fight back no matter what is used requires one to think out side the box.

    If a firearm is your always or first only response, as mine was for a time, then you have limited your chances of winning, and loosing may mean the loss of love one or your own life.
    Absolutely right we can never have one method of defense be it MA, knife or a surefire drilled into the throat or face. I believe we should be expedient in H2H and improvised weapons and spend as much time training as we do with our firearms. I kind of enjoy my family/life and will continue to do so for a while

  13. #28
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I personally cannot move defensively and my strong hand is partially paralyzed so I have learned to shoot weak hand only,my defense is going to be firearm first and hopefully the 25 rounds of 230 grn HST will be enough for any threat
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  14. #29
    Senior Member Array jeephipwr's Avatar
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    To have an efficient "1-stab stop" a knife needs a blade length of atleast 7 in. Granted a smaller knife in the hands of a trained professional might make a single stab stop, but in the hands of most of us, a smaller knife can only disable an arm or make a few wounds that will cause the BG to bleed out. That takes time and I really dont want to spend all that time fighting 1 person when there might be more.

  15. #30
    Senior Moderator
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    I usually carry a knife on the off-hand side. Can't really predict which would come into use in a halitosis distance fight for my life, it depends on which hand was free, location of the attacker and others nearby, etc.

    Be flexible and fluid. You can't decide know what you'll do then because you don't really know what will happen then.....

    Matt
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

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