Knife as primary and CC firearm as back up

This is a discussion on Knife as primary and CC firearm as back up within the Defensive Knives & Other Weapons forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Please tell me how this is wrong thinking, if it is wrong? How many CCW or Chl folks that carry regularly also carry a LOCK ...

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Thread: Knife as primary and CC firearm as back up

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    VIP Member Array searcher 45's Avatar
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    Knife as primary and CC firearm as back up

    Please tell me how this is wrong thinking, if it is wrong?

    How many CCW or Chl folks that carry regularly also carry a LOCK BLADE FOLDER or FIXED BLADE as a back up?

    In most cases with practice a LOCK BLADE FOLDER or FIXED BLADE can be deployed faster than CC firearm.

    If a Bad Guy wants wallet or car keys or anything that is on you, or wants to kidnap you he would have to get close enough to demand his wants, this is where A GOOD VERY SHARP DEFENSIVE KNIFE COMES IN NOT AS BACK UP BUT PRIMARY DEFENSE.

    A good sharp knife can be down right deadly, with very little concern about over penetration or missing the BG all together and downing someone else.

    CC FIREARM and DEFENSE KNIFE both have there place but for up close and personal (smell his stinking bad breath) the DEFENSE KNIFE seem to win as the weapon best suited for the task.

    As to the problem of getting his body fluids on you that will probably happen no matter what defensive weapon you use if you can smell his bad breath he will most likely bleed on you during the confrontation.

    Tell me why this is right thinking or wrong thinking!!!!!!!!!!

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    I think pretty much you are right, kind of.

    My Spyderco Delica with a wave can be deployed so much faster than my 1911 can from concealment. However, my first choice would be to use my firearm, as it does not require contact distance, and can deliver more damage quicker (on average I'm gonna be able to put two in the chest faster that I will be able to sever a major blood vessel with a knife).

    But if they BG is already on me, then I go for the knife as a tool to cause damage while making distance in order to try to get away/deploy my firearm (which is why knowing how to use a knife with both hands and having one accessible to both hands is IMO, a good idea.)

    Also firearms tend to require less training to get to an acceptable level with than knives do.

    I think that they complement each other well, but that your primary defensive tool should always be your mind, with everything else secondary tools.
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    Distinguished Member Array PastorPack's Avatar
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    One problem with the knife as primary is that the BG can defend against it by stepping out of contact distance. From there he can come up with a plan b attack. If he is armed with a gun, he can shoot you from non-contact distance.
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    VIP Member Array searcher 45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PastorPack View Post
    One problem with the knife as primary is that the BG can defend against it by stepping out of contact distance. From there he can come up with a plan b attack. If he is armed with a gun, he can shoot you from non-contact distance.

    Thank God, I have never had to do any of this in real life!!!!!!!!!!!

    But if seem to me that if BG is up close and personal and has firearm drawn already, and speed is all you have then grab for firearm with weak hand and defensive knife with strong hand and maybe push forward hard and cut his throat and then arm or hand to disable firearm. Nothing nice about it, this fight is for all the marbles.

    If a weapon is pulled on you or a love one you had better be ready to do whatever it takes, and pray you win.

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    VIP Member Array searcher 45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckeyeLCPL View Post
    I think pretty much you are right, kind of.

    My Spyderco Delica with a wave can be deployed so much faster than my 1911 can from concealment. However, my first choice would be to use my firearm, as it does not require contact distance, and can deliver more damage quicker (on average I'm gonna be able to put two in the chest faster that I will be able to sever a major blood vessel with a knife).

    But if they BG is already on me, then I go for the knife as a tool to cause damage while making distance in order to try to get away/deploy my firearm (which is why knowing how to use a knife with both hands and having one accessible to both hands is IMO, a good idea.)

    Also firearms tend to require less training to get to an acceptable level with than knives do.

    I think that they complement each other well, but that your primary defensive tool should always be your mind, with everything else secondary tools.
    My thinking is, if I have distance or can make distance and time I would go with CC firearm. Problem is I go forward better than back up, loose your footing and there is a good chance you or dead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by searcher 45 View Post
    My thinking is, if I have distance or can make distance and time I would go with CC firearm. Problem is I go forward better than back up, loose your footing and there is a good chance you or dead.
    True, which is why you should practice moving in all directions (without crossing your feet!), at first just moving, and then if you have a willing training partner with someone trying to engage you (with appropriate safety measures). But if you can take a lateral step and get behind and obstacle, it creates even more distance than just the lateral step, if that makes sense.

    If you have trained with your firearm and are defending yourself, distance in usually your friend, and if safe to do so you should make it.
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    Member Array kmbrcstm2's Avatar
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    What if he pulls a gun after you pull your knife out? Will you have enough time to draw your firearm when he already has his gun on you?

    I carry a Spyderco in addition to my firearm. But the Spyderco doesn't come out until both magazines are empty.
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    My mind is my primary weapon, it will assess any potential trouble before letting it get too close to me. If that fails then my secondary weapon is my pistol. I will let it tell the bg how poorly he chose his victim. If that should fail then my knife comes out. If he is too close for the firearm then the knife would come out to make distance. Which is why i keep my knife in my back pocket.
    "I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, you can't prove anything!" Bart Simpson

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    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    i carry a knife weak side and boot when wearing them...its weakside to defend if my firearm is grabbed or my strong side is injured and the firearm unavailable...i could see the need for the knife in a close struggle as drawing a firearm could go badly in tight quarters but the knife is a secondary weapon to my firearm in my opinion...i dont want to find out this guy knows martial arts knife defense while i have the option of trumping bruce lee tactics with a carefully placed round...i would never pretend to be that proficient with a knife...

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    I see where you're coming from, Searcher. However for me, the knife-fighting thing requires a skill set that has to be honed and would require a lot of training, just for that purpose. I don't wanna be a ninja - and a knife fight is not something that I ever want to choose as a primary method of defense. If somebody is presenting me with lethal force that I cannot avoid, I simply want to kill them first. Nothing elegant, just clik pao.
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    Distinguished Member Array Pro2A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by searcher 45 View Post
    Please tell me how this is wrong thinking, if it is wrong?

    How many CCW or Chl folks that carry regularly also carry a LOCK BLADE FOLDER or FIXED BLADE as a back up?

    In most cases with practice a LOCK BLADE FOLDER or FIXED BLADE can be deployed faster than CC firearm.

    If a Bad Guy wants wallet or car keys or anything that is on you, or wants to kidnap you he would have to get close enough to demand his wants, this is where A GOOD VERY SHARP DEFENSIVE KNIFE COMES IN NOT AS BACK UP BUT PRIMARY DEFENSE.

    A good sharp knife can be down right deadly, with very little concern about over penetration or missing the BG all together and downing someone else.

    CC FIREARM and DEFENSE KNIFE both have there place but for up close and personal (smell his stinking bad breath) the DEFENSE KNIFE seem to win as the weapon best suited for the task.

    As to the problem of getting his body fluids on you that will probably happen no matter what defensive weapon you use if you can smell his bad breath he will most likely bleed on you during the confrontation.

    Tell me why this is right thinking or wrong thinking!!!!!!!!!!
    I think in a close quarter situation if he knocks you on the ground or something this would apply. Otherwise I would go for my 1911. The last thing I need is to get into a knife fight with some punk... or have a lesser weapon if he has a gun.

    Just my thoughts.

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    Senior Member Array cwblanco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmbrcstm2 View Post
    What if he pulls a gun after you pull your knife out? Will you have enough time to draw your firearm when he already has his gun on you?

    I carry a Spyderco in addition to my firearm. But the Spyderco doesn't come out until both magazines are empty.
    Aha! I see someone who is looking at the situation realistically. Others have been watching too many movies.
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    This reminds me of something I learned when I worked as an armed security officer here in Vegas.

    When I was getting my training one of the primary concepts that was taught was to use the minimum amount of force necessary against any given person.

    At the time I carried OC spray, baton, flashlight, handcuffs, a .38 revolver & two speed loaders. We were told in the class by our instructor that if we drew anything from our duty belt we had better be prepared to use it. It wasn't to be used to attempt to intimidate a BG. It all depended on what type situation you were at that moment. This goes back 20+ years.

    If an unarmed BG confronts & threatens you, you shouldn't be considering using your SD handgun first. You might consider using a OC spray to defend yourself. Disable him first with less lethal weapons if at all possible. If you see a weapon (knife or gun) than you should be considering using your SD handgun to protect yourself if the BG does attempt to harm you. It all depends upon that individual situation.

    Every SD situation is different. I was trained to use the minimum use of force necessary to deal with any self defensive situation. Don't automatically reach for your SD handgun first. If something less lethal will work, give that a try first. We all shouldn't be reaching for our SD handgun as our first line of defense.

    But that's in my humble opinion!
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    Distinguished Member Array Madcap_Magician's Avatar
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    This thread seems to be not far removed from the "Would you rather use a CAR-15 or a katana for self-defense..."

    Since guns and knives are both regarded instruments of lethal force, one is the same as the other in the eyes of the law. So I'll go with the one that doesn't require extensive training, isn't limited to contact range, and offers (IMHO, at least) greater deterrent value. I carry a knife for practical use, and in an absolute last-ditch situation it could be a weapon, but I'll stick to my gun.

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    Didn't Sean Connery cover this in the Untouchables? J/K

    Seriously though, I see a couple problems. One is, the knife gives us an advantage only if he's not deploying any weapons at all. Which raises the question of why we are fearing for our lives. If he's not pulled anything, and we pull a knife, he may also pull a knife, or may pull a gun. If he HAS a gun in his hand, than I'm thinking pulling the knife will be a mistake, unless he is very very close to you. Where as if has a knife in his hand, we are now in a knife fight. I'm pretty sure there are no winners in most knife fights, just one guy who got cut more than the other.

    There might be situations where if he is right there on top of you, where deploying the knife is your best bet, but I would think, if you could create any distance at all, the gun would be preferable.

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