TN allows expandable baton w/training.

This is a discussion on TN allows expandable baton w/training. within the Defensive Knives & Other Weapons forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; do any other states allow it? I'm pretty sure KY does. Anyway, it is a good less than lethal alternative....

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Thread: TN allows expandable baton w/training.

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Bubbiesdad's Avatar
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    TN allows expandable baton w/training.

    do any other states allow it? I'm pretty sure KY does.
    Anyway, it is a good less than lethal alternative.
    Always remember that others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.
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    Member Array black knife's Avatar
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    You are better off with a knife.....unless you hit them in the head...which you can't legally...they are a waist of time......I only used a baton once in 15 1/2 years and the guy didn't go down...I had to choke him out.....the baton is only good when there are two individuals using them on the same subject.

    We lost a deputy because he got into a fight with a suspect. The suspect grabbed the baton and they both fought over it. The suspect then hit the deputy in the face, knocked him out and beat his head in until he died. The suspect was shot and killed by another deputy that had just arrived on scene. I had another buddy with CHP that got into a fight with a drunken suspect. The suspect grabbed my friend's baton after being struck several times. They fought over it and both fell to the ground. The suspect took the baton away and tried to hit him in the head. My friend had no choice but to put two into suspect's chest and dropped him for good.

    Batons will not stop an assailant from charging you and grabbing your baton. Remember you can't hit anybody in the head because that is considered deadly force but it won't stop some thug from taking it from you beating you to death with it. Just get a knife or better yet a gun
    Last edited by black knife; December 7th, 2009 at 01:58 AM.

  4. #3
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    I own a collapsible baton as I was a police officer once upon a time in Alabama. But, I never used it when on the force there and I don't think I want to carry it here in TN. It is a contact weapon, and not really a very good one at that. To use it the bad guy has to be right on top of you and for me, that is way to close.

    I carry a good folding knife in addition to my gun. If I have to use a contact weapon, I would rather it be a knife than a blunt instrument.
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    I carried one to as a cop and wouldn't recommend them to anyone... They are designed to be used for controlling someone, to arrest them...
    You are better off carrying a knife for a contact weapon...even OC is a better alternative to the baton...
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    New Member Array elmu's Avatar
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    I disagree. Batons are awesome weapons, and I´d take one over a knife any day (especially the flexible ones, not the rigid LE ones).

    The baton has longer range, and a better chance of inmediate stop. With a knife, you are likelier to end up in a bloody mess of a fight where you stand a pretty good chance of being injured or killed.

    The baton can be used as a deadly weapon if necessary. The knife... not so much.

    Also, I don´t think it´s much easier to wrestle a properly weilded baton from someone as opposed to a knife.

  7. #6
    Senior Member Array Bubbiesdad's Avatar
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    Then, there's always the brachial stun.


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  8. #7
    Blkkato
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    You could buy a stun gun baton, I saw one a a local pawn shop here in Phoenix, when the guy who worked there pushed the button it exstended 3 ft and lit up like a light sabor from Star Wars sparking and hissing the whole time. I would love to own one of those.

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    Member Array KevinInstructor's Avatar
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    With proper weapon training, the collapsible baton is an excellent tool for self-defense. It can be argued that a firearm or edge weapon is better than a baton but not every confrontation warrants the use of deadly physical force. My recommendations for a collapsible baton are Monadnock and ASP were full extension is minimal of 21 inches. Your training needs to include the use of the baton open and closed strikes, secondary strikes along with proper stance, opening and closing of the baton. Empty hand tactics along with verbalization is important, do not simply rely on any one tool.

    For civilian use I would look at ASP LeverLoc and Monadnock 21" auto-lock. If you decide on the LeverLoc make sure you get one that was not on the shelf for a long time as ASP has changed the locking lugs on the newer model. I wear out a first generation LeverLoc and ASP took two months to replace it as they were in the process of making changes. Any ways both Monadnock auto-lock and ASP LeverLoc are the best on the market.

    For training ASP has a three day program for LEO and security were many times the classes are no charge and the instructor is top notch. They recommend recertifying every three years. I strongly suggest if you are in an agency to review/practice once a year using proper training equipment i.e. training batons, training bags which can withstand full impact for a live baton. If possible a red man suit too.
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    Senior Member Array dsee11789's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blkkato View Post
    You could buy a stun gun baton, I saw one a a local pawn shop here in Phoenix, when the guy who worked there pushed the button it exstended 3 ft and lit up like a light sabor from Star Wars sparking and hissing the whole time. I would love to own one of those.
    The only problem with those (of the ones I've seen anyway)

    Is that it isn't an impact weapon. It is much too fragile to hit them with. All it does is increase your stunning range.
    Exodus 22:2 "If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed"

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    I’m not sure what the law is here in Arizona. I know that in California it was a felony to have a baton, whereas it was a misdemeanor to have a concealed handgun. Of course that was a long time ago. I’m sure that by now; it’s a felony to have a toothpick in that crazy state. It's hard for me to get over that the fact that I grew there, and went on to become a LEO in San Diego County.
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    Senior Member Array rhinokrk's Avatar
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    An expandable baton is a very nice largo range weapon, I carried one for a time when state certified. proper training is needed, as a previous poster noted above the shoulder strikes are a no no. UT issues a concealed firearms permit, so for me it's a moot point.
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    Member Array maritz01's Avatar
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    The baton is a good tool to have as long as the individual using it is trained, motivated and accepts the fact that it will cause pain, broken bones and if could be used in deadly force. Problem is even with LEOs some simply don't train enough with it and frankly watching them in yearly qualifications is scary. You just can't swing i.e. the way the LAPD used it. Swing it like you mean business and strike through the target. Remember there are green, yellow and red zones. If the perp does get possesion of it he just raised the level of threat to deadly force to the operator and would be justified in drawing and firing their weapon. Hopefully this doesn't happen but then again the possiblity is there if you carry these tools. As mentioned earlier in another post verbal commands are very important such as "GET DOWN, STOP, DON'T MAKE ME HIT YOU, GET BACK" are words that will invoke onlookers see and latter on become witnesses to the actions taken.

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    Member Array black knife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maritz01 View Post
    The baton is a good tool to have as long as the individual using it is trained, motivated and accepts the fact that it will cause pain, broken bones and if could be used in deadly force. Problem is even with LEOs some simply don't train enough with it and frankly watching them in yearly qualifications is scary. You just can't swing i.e. the way the LAPD used it. Swing it like you mean business and strike through the target. Remember there are green, yellow and red zones. If the perp does get possesion of it he just raised the level of threat to deadly force to the operator and would be justified in drawing and firing their weapon. Hopefully this doesn't happen but then again the possiblity is there if you carry these tools. As mentioned earlier in another post verbal commands are very important such as "GET DOWN, STOP, DON'T MAKE ME HIT YOU, GET BACK" are words that will invoke onlookers see and latter on become witnesses to the actions taken.
    The thread is about an Expandable Baton...as some of us have already stated...they are garbage.....compared to the Monadnock PR-24 baton. I have seen expandable batons collapse and it had nothing to do with the user. Straight batons or sidehandle batons work better.....but like all batons they are only usefull if the suspect you are striking just stands there and lets you hit him...if he attacks you then you have to move out of the way or he will grab your baton.

    I am sure you know this but power of the strike comes from the user striking with the tip of the baton.....so the closer the suspect gets to you the less power behind the strike. If the suspect moves toward you then you will have to move back to get full power shots. Imagine a baseball player trying to hit a baseball while moving, there would be no power behind the strike.

    That is why the baton is only useful when there are two or more officers on scene. IMO, I think using the baton when you are alone is placing yourself in a dangerous situation.
    "You fight the way you Train"

  15. #14
    Member Array maritz01's Avatar
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    I agree call for back up and wait for the calvary. We had one guy on a bar detail at a biker bar and the clown got himself in the middle of a brawl and before the backups arrived he was outside swinging away. I agree with you that this should be done as a last chance SHTF crap. Can't imagine someone using this on a meth head.

    Again as an update to this posting all situations are different and the ASP along with the OC and compliance techniques are all tools that can be used if done properly. If you carry this you need to be properly trained.

  16. #15
    Member Array KevinInstructor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by black knife View Post
    The thread is about an Expandable Baton...as some of us have already stated...they are garbage.....compared to the Monadnock PR-24 baton. I have seen expandable batons collapse and it had nothing to do with the user. Straight batons or sidehandle batons work better.....but like all batons they are only usefull if the suspect you are striking just stands there and lets you hit him...if he attacks you then you have to move out of the way or he will grab your baton.

    I am sure you know this but power of the strike comes from the user striking with the tip of the baton.....so the closer the suspect gets to you the less power behind the strike. If the suspect moves toward you then you will have to move back to get full power shots. Imagine a baseball player trying to hit a baseball while moving, there would be no power behind the strike.

    That is why the baton is only useful when there are two or more officers on scene. IMO, I think using the baton when you are alone is placing yourself in a dangerous situation.
    I would have to disagree with your statement that expandable batons are garbage compared to a straight baton. That is like saying folding pocket knifes are garbage compared to fix blade knives. Indeed expandable batons are not as good as straight batons just as folders are not as good as fix blade knives. In regards to a suspect moving closer, I agree but that is why one should not solely depend on one form of defense. My opinion on using a baton only when there are more than one officer is "it depends" on the situation and would never say the only time I would use my baton is when there are multiple officers. There are no guarantees with any one weapon or technique and think of the baton as but one tool in my box of defensive tools.
    Stay Safe,
    Kevin

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