Knife length?

This is a discussion on Knife length? within the Defensive Knives & Other Weapons forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I’m soOoo yesterdays’ news, but here in the Grand Canyon State, most folders that are considered general purpose are Ok being concealed. However, any quick ...

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Thread: Knife length?

  1. #16
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    I’m soOoo yesterdays’ news, but here in the Grand Canyon State, most folders that are considered general purpose are Ok being concealed. However, any quick action knifes that are not visible from three sides are consider concealed weapons. Hence, that’s part of the reason the CCW (conceal carry weapon) permit designation is so named. As others’ pointed out, the LEO has a whole lot of discretion in this regard. If you’re a dirt-bag or lack people skills, you will go down.
    “Monsters are real and so are ghosts. They live inside of us, and sometimes they win.”
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  3. #17
    New Member Array Spectrum's Avatar
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    As of (2009) Virginia's concealed weapons laws for knives do not specify blade length except for on school property [Va. Code 18.2-308.1(ii)(2009)].

    What makes a knife illegal to conceal genearlly in Virginia is whether it is a "Dirk", "Bowie Knife", "Switchblade", "Razor Blade", "Machete" or "Ballistic Blade" or "Of Like Kind" [Va. Code 18.2-308(ii) (2009)].

    What makes a knife illegal to conceal in Viriginia is a very case-by-case comparison of each knife with a Dirk, Bowie Knife, etc. as defined by a judge who may or may not have even a basic understanding of knives.

    Simple Pocket Knives (not switchblades or box cutters) are generally concealable in Virginia. Thanks to Woods v. Henry County Public Schools, 255 Va. 85 (1998).

    Kitchen Knives and Steak Knives are generally concealable in Virginia thanks to Farrakhan v Commonwealth, 639 S.E.2d 227 (2007). And Butterfly knives are generally ok (though the lower courts has often ruled otherwise) thanks to Thomas v. Commonwealth, 277 Va. 280 (2009).

    That being said, the courts can always change their mind and there are many law enforcement officers which do not have a firm grasp on these laws. many law enforcement officers follow the "if it looks dangerous or if the person is up to no good, arrest them rule". In the case of concealed knives there is a big difference between what can get you arrested, what can get you convicted, and what will stick on appeal.

    This is just a very basic statement of Virginia's law genearlly as of (Dec 2009) and is not legal advice for any specific person or situation. If you have questions about Virginia's concealed weapons laws. Please feel free to contact me at Spectrum Legal Defense.

    Luke Nichols
    Spectrum Legal Defense
    (703) 383-9222
    Spectrum Legal Defense
    lnichols@spectrum-legal.com

  4. #18
    Member Array JSlack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aric View Post
    9.41.250 and 9.41.270 cover most of it.

    9.41.250
    Dangerous weapons — Penalty — Exemption for law enforcement officers.

    (1) Every person who:

    (a) Manufactures, sells, or disposes of or possesses any instrument or weapon of the kind usually known as slung shot, sand club, or metal knuckles, or spring blade knife, or any knife the blade of which is automatically released by a spring mechanism or other mechanical device, or any knife having a blade which opens, or falls, or is ejected into position by the force of gravity, or by an outward, downward, or centrifugal thrust or movement;

    (b) Furtively carries with intent to conceal any dagger, dirk, pistol, or other dangerous weapon; or

    is guilty of a gross misdemeanor punishable under chapter 9A.20 RCW.
    ok, I may be ignorant on the wording there, but I don't see where it says I can't carry a fixed blade knife concealed or otherwise. Is a fixed blade considered a dagger or dirk?

    A dagger or dirk is not defined in "Terms Defined"
    RCW 9.41.010: Terms defined.

    Wiki defines a dagger here
    Dagger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    and Dirk here
    Dirk - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    for example, a RAT Izula or RC-3, does not fall into either of those definitions.

    Of course, the WA courts may say otherwise...

    thoughts?

  5. #19
    Member Array black knife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSlack View Post
    ok, I may be ignorant on the wording there, but I don't see where it says I can't carry a fixed blade knife concealed or otherwise. Is a fixed blade considered a dagger or dirk?

    A dagger or dirk is not defined in "Terms Defined"
    RCW 9.41.010: Terms defined.

    Wiki defines a dagger here
    Dagger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    and Dirk here
    Dirk - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    for example, a RAT Izula or RC-3, does not fall into either of those definitions.

    Of course, the WA courts may say otherwise...

    thoughts?
    RCWs > Title 9 > Chapter 9.41 > Section 9.41.270

    Print Version | [No disponible en español]

    9.41.260 << 9.41.270 >> 9.41.280


    RCW 9.41.270
    Weapons apparently capable of producing bodily harm — Unlawful carrying or handling — Penalty — Exceptions.

    (1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.

    (2) Any person violating the provisions of subsection (1) above shall be guilty of a gross misdemeanor. If any person is convicted of a violation of subsection (1) of this section, the person shall lose his or her concealed pistol license, if any. The court shall send notice of the revocation to the department of licensing, and the city, town, or county which issued the license.

    (3) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply to or affect the following:

    (a) Any act committed by a person while in his or her place of abode or fixed place of business;

    (b) Any person who by virtue of his or her office or public employment is vested by law with a duty to preserve public safety, maintain public order, or to make arrests for offenses, while in the performance of such duty;

    (c) Any person acting for the purpose of protecting himself or herself against the use of presently threatened unlawful force by another, or for the purpose of protecting another against the use of such unlawful force by a third person;

    (d) Any person making or assisting in making a lawful arrest for the commission of a felony; or

    (e) Any person engaged in military activities sponsored by the federal or state governments.


    [1994 sp.s. c 7 § 426; 1969 c 8 § 1.]


    Notes:
    Finding -- Intent -- Severability -- 1994 sp.s. c 7: See notes following RCW 43.70.540.

    Effective date -- 1994 sp.s. c 7 §§ 401-410, 413-416, 418-437, and 439-460: See note following RCW 9.41.010.

    I found this....It all depends how you interpret intimidate
    "You fight the way you Train"

  6. #20
    Member Array black knife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSlack View Post
    ok, I may be ignorant on the wording there, but I don't see where it says I can't carry a fixed blade knife concealed or otherwise. Is a fixed blade considered a dagger or dirk?

    A dagger or dirk is not defined in "Terms Defined"
    RCW 9.41.010: Terms defined.

    Wiki defines a dagger here
    Dagger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    and Dirk here
    Dirk - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    for example, a RAT Izula or RC-3, does not fall into either of those definitions.

    Of course, the WA courts may say otherwise...

    thoughts?
    Dangerous weapons — Penalty — Exemption for law enforcement officers.
    (1) Every person who:

    (a) Manufactures, sells, or disposes of or possesses any instrument or weapon of the kind usually known as slung shot, sand club, or metal knuckles, or spring blade knife, or any knife the blade of which is automatically released by a spring mechanism or other mechanical device, or any knife having a blade which opens, or falls, or is ejected into position by the force of gravity, or by an outward, downward, or centrifugal thrust or movement;

    (b) Furtively carries with intent to conceal any dagger, dirk, pistol, or other dangerous weapon; or

    (c) Uses any contrivance or device for suppressing the noise of any firearm,

    is guilty of a gross misdemeanor punishable under chapter 9A.20 RCW.

    (2) Subsection (1)(a) of this section does not apply to:

    (a) The possession of a spring blade knife by a law enforcement officer while the officer:

    (i) Is on official duty; or

    (ii) Is transporting the knife to or from the place where the knife is stored when the officer is not on official duty; or

    (b) The storage of a spring blade knife by a law enforcement officer.


    [2007 c 379 § 1; 1994 sp.s. c 7 § 424; 1959 c 143 § 1; 1957 c 93 § 1; 1909 c 249 § 265; 1886 p 81 § 1; Code 1881 § 929; RRS § 2517.]

    Notes: Finding -- Intent -- Severability -- 1994 sp.s. c 7: See notes following RCW 43.70.540.

    Effective date -- 1994 sp.s. c 7 §§ 401-410, 413-416, 418-437, and 439-460: See note following RCW 9.41.010.
    "You fight the way you Train"

  7. #21
    Distinguished Member Array REVMAN's Avatar
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    Sounds like to me it's safer by law to carry a gun than carrying knife. I had no idea there were so many laws on carrying a knife.
    Always put Jesus first in your life.
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  8. #22
    VIP Member Array Stevew's Avatar
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    Handgunlaws.us has link to knife laws. There are more local ordinances for knifes than you would ever believe. Makes gun laws seem simple.
    Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around laws. Plato

  9. #23
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    It's called the NRA for a reason. Knives don't have the grass-roots political backing or media attention that firearms get so most people don't even know when their local or state legislators do something completely out of line with regulating them.

    Heck, the only time I've seen people really flip out about knives is when a federal agency randomly decided to ban 80%+ of the things out of hand during the recently resolved unpleasantness.

  10. #24
    New Member Array airwolfe1's Avatar
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    I think this will help. I found this on Handgunlaw.us This is a list of laws pertaining to knives in particular by state and even localities. http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USKnife.pdf

    Oddly enough there was nothing like this on Knife Rights - Home

  11. #25
    Member Array black knife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by REVMAN View Post
    Sounds like to me it's safer by law to carry a gun than carrying knife. I had no idea there were so many laws on carrying a knife.
    Surprisingly California knife laws are not that bad compared to the gun laws. We can carry a fixed blade any size on the streets as long as it is in a sheath and worn on your belt openly. You can carry any size folder and it can be concealed. The only place you can't carry a knife longer than 2 3/4 inches long is at a school K-12. However are gun laws are terrible compared to other states.
    "You fight the way you Train"

  12. #26
    Member Array Dupek's Avatar
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    My wife says she needs 10 inches every nite.

    So, I screw her twice.

  13. #27
    Senior Member Array psychophipps's Avatar
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    You might want to slow it down a bit there, Dupek. The refs like to see a clean game here.

  14. #28
    Senior Member Array mercop's Avatar
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    I would much rather have to defend myself in a civil court for using a firearm than an edged weapon. Most people don't view deadly force as deadly force. This is why IMHO I want to focus on cutting myself out of situations instead of "knife fighting".

    The truth is that if I had to chose a tool for this contact distance altercations it would be a sap instead of a knife. I will take central nervous system and structural disruption over circulatory disruption any day of the week. But that is another story.- George

  15. #29
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    I agree this is a really poorly defined area of law. Statutes in MN seem to (only) make automatic knives illegal; blade length is not mentioned. Minneapolis specifically states folders 4" and less are OK.

    But I have had two different LEO aquaintances recently tell me my 4" folder carry knife is illegal, without being able to state the statute.

    I've also been told in the past concealed knives are illegal, but again there's no MN statute I can find. Bikers et al back when carried their Buck Hunters on their belts so they would NOT be concealed.

    There is a standard used by LEO's here that I've seen several times through the years of holding a blade against the palm of the hand - longer than that they consider the knife illegal, or at least something they will immediately confiscate.
    Jackpine

  16. #30
    Member Array black knife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackpine View Post
    I agree this is a really poorly defined area of law. Statutes in MN seem to (only) make automatic knives illegal; blade length is not mentioned. Minneapolis specifically states folders 4" and less are OK.

    But I have had two different LEO aquaintances recently tell me my 4" folder carry knife is illegal, without being able to state the statute.

    I've also been told in the past concealed knives are illegal, but again there's no MN statute I can find. Bikers et al back when carried their Buck Hunters on their belts so they would NOT be concealed.

    There is a standard used by LEO's here that I've seen several times through the years of holding a blade against the palm of the hand - longer than that they consider the knife illegal, or at least something they will immediately confiscate.
    Jackpine

    Believe it or not most LEO"s don't know the knife laws in their state. There just are too many laws for LEO's to remember and knife laws are not on the top of the list to remember compared to the drug, traffic and gun laws. When I stopped guys with knives it was no big deal....I was more concerned with gang bangers with guns and drugs.

    So I suggest you look up your states knife laws yourself or go to a good criminal attorney to find out what you can and can't carry
    "You fight the way you Train"

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