Knife Defense against multiple opponents!

Knife Defense against multiple opponents!

This is a discussion on Knife Defense against multiple opponents! within the Defensive Knives & Other Weapons forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; How many people who only carry a knife for self protection train to use it against multiple unarmed assailants? How many believe it is justifiable ...

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Thread: Knife Defense against multiple opponents!

  1. #1
    Member Array black knife's Avatar
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    Knife Defense against multiple opponents!

    How many people who only carry a knife for self protection train to use it against multiple unarmed assailants? How many believe it is justifiable to do so?

    As we know there is no such thing as a fair fight anymore. If you get into an altercation with someone and he or she is not alone then you can assume that you will have to fight them all.

    As a former LEO I have seen firsthand what types of injuries a person can sustain from being jumped by several assailants. Some victims have even died from their injuries.
    "You fight the way you Train"


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    Member Array Bm7b5's Avatar
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    There are times when I only carry knives for self defense. I have had formal training that included multiple attacker scenarios.

    To whether multiple attackers justifies lethal force, the answer is "it depends." It may, it may not. As in all situations, my personal framework for using deadly force requires that the following four elements exist:

    -The attacker(s) are physically capable of using deadly force.
    -The attacker(s) must have the opportunity to use deadly force.
    -A deadly force attack must be imminent.
    -I have precluded all other options.

    Certainly multiple attackers usually fits into the disparity of force category, so that usually means capability is present. But the other three elements must also exist.
    A traffic ticket is formal recognition of a lapse in situational awareness.

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    Member Array armbreaker's Avatar
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    u are so right black knife but u wont find many people that train for that situation. i come from a neiborhood where that happened alot. So i do keep in mind that it could happen and try to prepare as best i can.Any tips?

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    Member Array black knife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by armbreaker View Post
    u are so right black knife but u wont find many people that train for that situation. i come from a neiborhood where that happened alot. So i do keep in mind that it could happen and try to prepare as best i can.Any tips?
    With knife training you will need partners that are into knife defense as well....I suggest putting a knife training group together. This makes knife training easier and more fun. Solo training is hard and boring.

    For multiple assaillant training, I practice defending against the strikes, i.e. punches/ kicks and grabs using the knife.

    I use a parry /slash combo then I can go into a thrust or slash finish. For instance lets say a guy throws a right cross to my face. I will parry the strike to my right side with my left hand then I immediately downward slash his wrist or forearm. I can then do a check and go for a thrust to the throat or belly. Then I will move behind the guy and use him as a shield and see what the next guy will do.

    For drills I start off with a single attack drill first then I go into double attack drills where two guys attack. You will eventually go against three or four guys as you progress in your training. In my class I wil have three or four guys put on boxing gloves. They will attack the student that is armed with a training knife. The armed student's goal is to avoid getting hit at the same time he is cutting and slashing the students playing the bad guys. The idea is to keep moving to avoid getting hit and grabbed while you are slashing and thrusting. If you have anymore questions...e-mail me.
    "You fight the way you Train"

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    Member Array Bm7b5's Avatar
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    Black Knife, those are some good training tips. In general, in multiple attacker scenarios, the defender wants to turn the encounter into into several, short, 1 on 1 fights instead of trying to fight everyone at once (defender has very bad odds going against everyone at the same time no matter what weapon he has).

    If the defender can initiate a short, ultra-violent, deadly, and explosive attack against one of the attackers, it is highly likely to strip the will to fight from the other attackers.

    And using your first target as a shield against the other attackers is a great technique.

    You should also include verbal commands in your training "STOP! YOU'RE CUT, YOU'RE CUT" and be looking for a way to get the hell out of Dodge.
    A traffic ticket is formal recognition of a lapse in situational awareness.

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    A knife fight for me? Oh hell no! I still have a scar on the top of my right hand from the last one I got into back in 1975. I was a LEO assisting DEA in a raid that went south in a hurry. As it turns out, getting sliced with a knife really hurts! I would rather go with option ‘C’ than ever doing that again! BTW: Option ‘A’ is to run and Option ‘B’ is to run faster. Footnote: I have a condition whereby I can’t run. Oops! Almost forgot the question... Yes, I have a fancy Microtech auto-blade (best in my opinion) that I use to open the mail.
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    Member Array black knife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bm7b5 View Post
    Black Knife, those are some good training tips. In general, in multiple attacker scenarios, the defender wants to turn the encounter into into several, short, 1 on 1 fights instead of trying to fight everyone at once (defender has very bad odds going against everyone at the same time no matter what weapon he has).

    If the defender can initiate a short, ultra-violent, deadly, and explosive attack against one of the attackers, it is highly likely to strip the will to fight from the other attackers.

    And using your first target as a shield against the other attackers is a great technique.

    You should also include verbal commands in your training "STOP! YOU'RE CUT, YOU'RE CUT" and be looking for a way to get the hell out of Dodge.
    Yeah I figure that once the other knuckle heads see their buddy's guts hanging out they would probably stop their attack and take off.....everybody has cut themselves at least once in their life time...so they know how it feels. I think that is why it has a psychological affect on people when they see a knife in the hands of someone that knows how to use it.
    "You fight the way you Train"

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    Quote Originally Posted by black knife View Post
    With knife training you will need partners that are into knife defense as well....I suggest putting a knife training group together. This makes knife training easier and more fun. Solo training is hard and boring.

    For multiple assaillant training, I practice defending against the strikes, i.e. punches/ kicks and grabs using the knife.

    I use a parry /slash combo then I can go into a thrust or slash finish. For instance lets say a guy throws a right cross to my face. I will parry the strike to my right side with my left hand then I immediately downward slash his wrist or forearm. I can then do a check and go for a thrust to the throat or belly. Then I will move behind the guy and use him as a shield and see what the next guy will do.

    For drills I start off with a single attack drill first then I go into double attack drills where two guys attack. You will eventually go against three or four guys as you progress in your training. In my class I wil have three or four guys put on boxing gloves. They will attack the student that is armed with a training knife. The armed student's goal is to avoid getting hit at the same time he is cutting and slashing the students playing the bad guys. The idea is to keep moving to avoid getting hit and grabbed while you are slashing and thrusting. If you have anymore questions...e-mail me.
    Great advice!!!
    Stay Safe,
    Kevin

    CSSDSD Instructor
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    I think it is a good idea to train with any weapon you carry for self-defense for multiple attackers, as many will have backups. My students are exposed to the idea that there could be multiple attackers but are not indoctrinated into working against multiple attackers until they have a good grasp of the basics down. Since I have limited accessibility to red men suits there have been times when students have left practice sessions against multiple attackers fairly bruised from these simulations.
    Stay Safe,
    Kevin

    CSSDSD Instructor
    ASP Instructor
    ACCJT Certified LEO DT Instructor
    NRA Instructor

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    Member Array black knife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinInstructor View Post
    Great advice!!!
    Thanks....my students appreciate the realistic approach to my teaching.
    "You fight the way you Train"

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    Member Array Jim Macklin's Avatar
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    take a number

    Knife Defense against multiple opponents! , is not like a Hollywood movie with everybody waiting their turn to attack.
    You are defending yourself because they are bad people. They will not wait for you to get around to them.

    Years ago, a martial arts master selected several strangers from the audience at the Illinois State Fair to demonstrate sword fighting.
    These farm boys put him in the hospital with the wooden swords they were all using because they all came at once.

    The best defense is a gun and 21 foot distance. The next might be to be an fast runner.

    The greatest defense is to avoid the whole thing.
    Last edited by JD; December 14th, 2009 at 10:35 PM. Reason: Removed irrelevant info.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Macklin View Post
    Knife Defense against multiple opponents! , is not like a Hollywood movie with everybody waiting their turn to attack.
    You are defending yourself because they are bad people. They will not wait for you to get around to them.

    Years ago, a martial arts master selected several strangers from the audience at the Illinois State Fair to demonstrate sword fighting.
    These farm boys put him in the hospital with the wooden swords they were all using because they all came at once.

    The best defense is a gun and 21 foot distance. The next might be to be an fast runner.

    The greatest defense is to avoid the whole thing.
    Completely misses OPs question, which was: IF your only SD tool is a knife, DO you practice multiple attacker defense techniques? Saying that a gun is a better tool, or that you should run if you have the option, or avoid the whole thing, has nothing to do with the conversation.
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    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Macklin View Post
    Knife Defense against multiple opponents! , is not like a Hollywood movie with everybody waiting their turn to attack.
    You are defending yourself because they are bad people. They will not wait for you to get around to them.

    Years ago, a martial arts master selected several strangers from the audience at the Illinois State Fair to demonstrate sword fighting.
    These farm boys put him in the hospital with the wooden swords they were all using because they all came at once.

    The best defense is a gun and 21 foot distance. The next might be to be an fast runner.

    The greatest defense is to avoid the whole thing.
    Keep it on topic.

    No where in this thread is anyone talking about taking on multiple attackers armed with knives. The OP is addressing YOU being armed with the knife against multiple attackers which are UNARMED.

    Further more, while 21 feet of space and a gun is a nice thing to have, it would be a luxury in most cases and most altercations happen well within that 21 feet. Train for the worst, hope for the best.

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    The reality that I have run into is that you're pretty much stuck dealing with them one at a time regardless. It's cool to see Jet Li do splits kicks and the like but we'll all be stuck with one guy at a time unless things go into The Danger Zone. Of course, "The danger Zone" means that you're getting struck by multiple opponents with whatever they have handy and you're still dealing with them one at a time. Yay?

    Multiple opponents is all about footwork, knowing how groups move, and (hopefully) forcing them to come at you from a single direction at once. If you're getting multiples in an open area who know what they're doing, it's very likely going to be your ass.

    My advice is pretty simple. Charge one of the attackers and do as much damage and shoving him away from his buddy(ies) as you can before his buddy(ies) get(s) on top of you. Once the first is hopefully hurt enough to at least be slowed down, go on to number two as fast and hard as possible. Repeat as necessary as long as you can, until they decide that there are greener pastures elsewhere, or you somehow get away.
    Last edited by JD; December 14th, 2009 at 10:44 PM. Reason: Addressed via PM.

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    If there are mutiple attackers, I have more mags available on my hip.

    Personal opinion and experience, you don't want to get into a situation with fighting mutiple attackers with a knife. Usually, once 1 or 2 are shot, the others will flee.

    Quote Originally Posted by black knife View Post
    How many people who only carry a knife for self protection train to use it against multiple unarmed assailants? How many believe it is justifiable to do so?
    Personal opinion, you don't want to have mutiple attackers and all you have is a knife. I was trained in some weapons in martial arts and was fairly good with them, and some key words are..... fight to escape. That's the only way to win in that type of fight, to escape in one piece. Otherwise, if they want to get you... they will. Also, minimize the space that they have to get to you... i.e. narrow hallway, etc.
    Last edited by JD; December 15th, 2009 at 11:39 AM.

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